Conspiracy Theories: What do you believe in?

Episode Transcript

There was, Ah, book I read by Reza Azlan. I can’t remember the name of it, but anyway, it kind of ended with this view of Jesus Christ, The man that’s it was the breakdown of Jesus Christ, the man. And in the end, like if you think about it like what is the difference between Jesus being divine and Jesus just being a man? Because the impact on society going forward is just as incredible, right? Like if he was not divine, but was just an incredible person with great views and like the way that he lived his life and people should live their lives in his image as a person, what’s the difference?

What’s the outcome like this dude, like if he was a regular person, is that not just his impactful? Is him being divine? It’s like urban legend.  All right, we’re back.

This is your host Tim Travis Herman… Your name funny? And this is Herman Eyes that. Is that what you’re going with? I think I think so. E So Herman Herman. Alright. So, man, you having problems with your your problems with my name today? No, I’m not. Do you believe in my name Is my name Herman, isn’t it? I don’t know. I don’t know. But it z a theory that I’ve been rolling went for, like, 34 years. Theories. I’m glad that you brought up the word theories because today I wanted to discuss a very interesting topic which is around conspiracy theories.

Why they happen? Why certain people believe them. Is it stupid? What do we know? Where do we start? All I know is it’s a question that I’ve seen floating around all week long, and I figured we should just talk about it. So I guess I’m gonna lead this, Tim. So my question to you, because I think that we all have interesting views on this is Have you ever believed in a conspiracy theory? I got a list of them, Travis. No, I’m not a conspiracy theory guy bust.

I don’t take everything at face value, so I think I just talked out of both sides of my mouth, but I don’t really believe in conspiracy conspiracy theories. Now, that is interesting. And I, uh, kind of put the maths it to any conspiracy theory, which is the likelihood that it is true versus not not being true, right? But, Tim, you’re just, like, all in I’m all in, bro. Eso I believe it. I mean, I’m a I’m a sci fi watching superhero 11. You know, creative area 51 UFOs co vid in the vaccine, apple products and planned obsolescence.

Those phantom vibrations that you get in your pocket when your phones in your pocket, bro. Alexa, hold up. How is Alexa conspiracy? Some of these things aren’t conspiracy theories there. Can you prove that you’re 90% of the people have claimed that they felt their phone vibrate when it’s in their pocket 4 to 5 times a day. Have you ever heard? Have you ever had a phantom vibration were like dams? My phone ringing. Check your pockets. Pull it out. Nothing. No, but I’ve had good vibrations. Sweet sensations. You remember those Mina lists that were popping up all over the country last year?

Yeah, they I think they figured that one out, though. That wasn’t crazy. And the CIA declassified those documents about UFOs and extraterrestrial. First of all, there have been no UFO’s since 1997. When Will Smith took care of that for on? That’s why T Bone doesn’t believe in conspiracy. Obviously, he didn’t see the second part of that movie, right? Uh, I think there was just, uh they just did it over. It was just a rematch. There’s just money grab. It was just some money. Grab Elvis. When did he die?

How did he die? Is he still alive? Is he working in the theme park in Orlando? No. No, he’s not. I’m pretty sure he died pooping on the toilet, possibly in Memphis, or something like It was a quick question. The CEO of Pepsi was recorded saying he’d never let his family touched any of their products. Mark Zuckerberg puts tape over his laptop camera and microphone. Steve Jobs band his kids from using the iPad. Bill Gates strictly limited his Children’s technology use and the CEO of McDonald’s claims he doesn’t even eat his own companies. Food?

Why do you think that is, guys? So there is seriously theory, but there’s true stories that they tell, first of all, working in the digital space. We know how to pull data on people for for, um, just for understanding, for marketing purposes, for marketing research. So it’s like, Can somebody log in or like the whole concept of your devices listening to you? Well, kind of, sort of. But really, that’s just met A tracking of like what you’re listening to when you’re listening to it when you’re logging in that information is not hard to find.

But people believe that their devices, they’re listening. They just don’t understand the background of how they’re doing that and what they’re getting, when how they’re utilizing it. And that lack of information or misinformation creates a conspiracy theory and tells the story that people start to believe or not, which is why I can’t wait till this episode continues, because there’s this really interesting correlation between conspiracy theory, broad in general and storytelling and what that is, and I kind of want to take it to where we are today.

So my thing is like, obviously, the thing going on the news is like Q A non and Pizza gate and Hillary Clinton and you know all this stuff, right? Um, but one thing before we go down that pathway that I wanna ask Travis’s. Why don’t you believe in conspiracy theories? You too, good, bro. I don’t think I’m too good. I do. But I think that, um ah, lot of times conspiracy theories and my estimation are built off of, um explaining that what someone believes is inexplicable. And I think that a lot of times people take things and run with them, and then they become manmade tales.

And that is what leads me off the conspiracy theory train because I’m like, Yeah, this is too far fetched. It’s really much more simple, or what’s actually in front of you is actually the truth. Santa Claus. That is just a flat out lie. It’s not a conspiracy. Eso you don’t believe. Okay. Mm, some sad Christmases. And, uh, let’s just say my parents take all the credit. E never got presents from saying Damn giving that man credit for BMX. Yeah, man, that’s funny. So So to go back to kind of like where we started.

So, like you know, why are people susceptible to believe in conspiracy theories? Because, like, I’ve seen a lot of answers in there because people are uninformed or people are stupid. But the reality is on a behavioral tip. It is human nature to find understanding in things that are complex. And I think it’s an interesting correlation because the stories that make up a conspiracy theory in my mind are no less than the stories associated with any brand or any construct of what we want people to believe or not believe.

And when you think about how humans behave so like I don’t know, ah couple where there’s infidelity, right? Like somebody is going to not necessarily put together a theory. But I was talking to Travis about this earlier, but it’s like, you know, until that person tells you definitively, Yeah, I cheated. A person will seek understanding and why or how, or you know all of those things to tell or toe put together a story to tell themselves, Toe make it okay, and it’s just I don’t know. I’m like, I think that people go down these pathways for way too long.

And what seems crazy becomes riel. Tim, My question to you is, how does storytelling, I guess, have its place in, You know, Is it similar when it comes to branding, similar when it comes to the construct of like the outcome, that you Yeah, I mean, I think you’ll you’ll. You’ll dive into this and break it down for the listeners a little bit more. But if you think about branding, Uh, so the definition of a brand we’ve talked about this before is someone else’s perception of your brand in their mind, right?

So you can do everything you can and you want, but at the end of the day, it’s what they think. That’s what your actual brand is, no matter what you say. So you have to convince them through storytelling through visuals, through, um, you know, creative through copy through words through audio, whether it’s funny or informational or intriguing or persuasive. And you know when you talk about advertising and you mentioned you know, your phone listening and then, you know, serving you up ads later about something you talked to you about your home boy or whatever and, um, you know, with advertising, you’ve got to get that message to your target audience 7 to 11 times before they actually start thinking about it, making a purchasing decision or showing interests.

And so the the implants of these small messages, you know, on your laptop or on a you know, another website or on your phone or on the radio or, you know, at an event or driving down the highway, they start to tell this story and convince you that I do need that. Okay, so I think that is one part of branding and advertising that, you know, tells an entire story in bite sized messages. And I could see how that could correlate with your conspiracy theory messaging. Um, you know, if if you take Area 51 for example, like that story’s been told for several years through generations, Um, and I think it kind of hit his peak.

Was that last year or the year before, when they when they stormed area 51 like and I’m sure there are organizations, put it, you know, that are beefing it up and telling the story and showing visuals and video evidence, quote unquote and then the whole, You know, the documents that got released by the FBI, like, who knows if that was really or if it was fake, But it fed fired to that story and it had a You know, um, it swelled up and boom. Well, where is that story today?

There’s probably some people still perpetrating it, but it’s not in mainstream media, at least, right. And just to add to that, So the other thing that I think people so like, you know, we’ll touch on the actual conspiracy theory that I’m kind of talking about. That’s relative to today. But it’s also the fact that in branding, advertising and all those media outlets, it’s segmentation and leading people down a pathway for their sense of belonging. Sure, this identity. So as much as you want these people to associate with or connect with your brand through the right messaging at the right time, right, and through branding and marketing, you’re not looking for the entire world.

Everybody on the Internet or who’s breathing to buy your product. You’re looking for those who are susceptible or have behaviors or, you know, interest in things related to your product. right. So if I’m in health and, you know, health and fitness and I’m, you know, looking over, uh, new recipes and all this stuff Well Ah, freaking Bowflex. I may not be looking for equipment or whatever, but Bowflex knows I’m looking for a health and wellness and meditation and nutrition. So they’re going to try to slide in and send me their messaging because they know, you know, I have a propensity to go this one direction and their associated so it helps strengthen their They’re bringing their message of their story.

So what I hear is the power of persuasion allows conspiracy theory or to get traction, Yes, and also just knowing where you are. And also so, like, think about micro messaging, right? So it’s like the lady in Congress. That’s that’s all about the news, because she’s this huge queuing on conspiracy theorists. She believes that laser is on the moon or somewhere in outer space, Uh, controlled by a Jews that set the wildfires in California on. She believes that Parkland didn’t happen. She believes, you know, Hillary Clinton was gonna be arrested.

All this stuff, right? She is the new I think, Senator for Georgia. Forgot her name. Oh, my God. Marjorie. Marjorie Taylor. Marjorie something. Yeah, right, So but it’s weird. So Tim brings up, you know, a good point. So my thing is like a lot of people that went down this Q and on pathway, uh, started on, like, an anti vaccination website. And then it led all these other like, micro steps. Toto, all this other stuff, right? So it’s like when you’re thinking about this ad or believing in ad, I’m like, you know, how does time play a part?

How does time play a part? And how does time play a part in messaging? Well, timing is everything. Storytelling timing is everything. So if if I’m picking up what you’re laying down your ability to convey a message at the right time with the right set of details when the passion is met with that, um, with those opportunistic characters, then you have an opportunity right to be vulnerable, to be persuaded. And so if we’re in a pandemic type situation, right with something that you don’t completely understand and then you’ve already been challenging little minor things like the flu for years on end, you know, if somebody comes on a comes with, ah, fresh new illness and on and at a time when people have the energy Toby engaged, engaged or, you know, upset or whatever emotions we might have.

Like 2020 2020 was the perfect time to drop a bomb. A perfect storm Because people have nothing but time to look at their phones. People have nothing but time to get invested in energy That is parallel to how they’re currently filling if you’re feeling negative and then it just kind of compounds right? And so that is a recency of how things can get to the point where it’s a such a big snowball that is headed down downhill. And that’s based on timing. Now, that’s just a recent example. Um, but when you talk about conspiracy theories, man, that’s age old, right?

Yeah. So, Tim, speaking of age old conspiracy theories, Yes. Damn it, I was trying to find it. Well, you know why we’re here, right? Like you know why conspiracy theories are so a big part of our Oh, here it is. According to predictions made by Nostradamus in the 16th century, we have famine, solar storms and zombies to contend with in the coming year. This year of 2021 the astrologer, who died in 15 66 has been credited with correctly predicting various world events, including the rise of Hitler and the 9 11 attacks.

But I’m pretty sure if you broke down what he said specifically. So that is a big part of where I sit with conspiracy theories, not panning out yet, people still believing, and that is the piece. To me, that is completely ridiculous. So there are some things that are easy to predict. So, like one thing that you hear right now or like that you might see on social media is like gas prices going to go up on her. Biden or all of you know, this this list of this litany of things.

But I’m like, Do gas prices fluctuate over time like they’re going to go up and down. So like those air, there’s some easy, broad predictions. I actually think that that’s the best way to protect against falling, you know, subject to certain conspiracy theories. Unless, like you really seek that sense of belonging, you really seek that tribalism or, you know, being a part of a group. You all are still too recent on why we are where we are today with conspiracy theory. We are a foundation built off of conspiracy theory.

What is everybody’s Northstar, not everybody. What is most People’s North Star? What did they use for guidance? What did they use for the truth? So in America, I would say a large swath of that is religion. That’s a global right. That’s global and religion. Is that so? If you look at the story of the Bible and you think about the things that are taught from the Bible, that is the greatest conspiracy theory ever known to make shit going on in that book, that is the greatest conspiracy theory ever known.

The man. And if you think about it, right, a lot of the things that were said and told them there would be very far fetched from anything we would see today. You’re saying Lazarus wasn’t raised from the dead? Are you saying that you shouldn’t take your child Thio be stoned for telling a lie at the end of this at the end of the city limits or whatever there are saying? Moses did not actually part the Red Sea, and I’m still questions walked into a part of it.

I’m still questioning if he turned water into wine. Jesus turned water into wine as well. Keep the party going. Eso when you think about it, foundational Lee, We are built off of conspiracy theory and were built off some of the things that you’re talking about. Tribalism, sense of belonging. Because that’s what the church is right. And that’s why you have this overarching religion. Then you have these different variations, right? Because we’re going to kick it like this. This is how we’re going to kick it. You wanna be down with this crew?

You know, I’m saying you’re gonna do this. And if you wanna be down with us, we’re a little bit more militant over here. So we’re gonna get down like this, and we don’t believe it this way. Is there exact quotes from the pope in 18. 16 on. And if you wanna be kind of in the neutral come over here and kick it with this Christianity, you know, I’m saying we’re gonna kick it like this over here, And if you don’t believe any of this shit Yeah, we got a group.

Thing is blasphemous, Travis is it is. It is riel and relevant to the conversation. Like who do you believe in? That’s up to you. But there is a lot of things that are questionable. If based on our interactions are daily observations and what we see today that would tell you that all of us can’t be right. Science versus guy, I mean, the whole thing. But even some of us eyes theoretical. So a lot of things in science can’t be proven, which is why they are like that.

Which is why they’re called theories, Trump. But no, no, Hold on real quick. I believe in science. But I’m saying ah, lot. So science works out of the scientific method which has to do with a lot of, like, testing and have a hypothesis. You try to prove it or disprove it. But as new information comes in, that changes, which then leads some people in conspiracy theory world to be like, Oh, they’re lying. It’s another factor in this lie that reiterates my truth. So that’s I’m glad you brought that up because I struggle with that shit every day, every week of my life.

You know, again, I go back to health and fitness, right? Like that’s that’s always been a topic of mine, a pillar of my content in my brand and my being, Uh, you know, I subscribe him in health. I read the magazines, I read the articles and, you know, if you go through time through, like, physical fitness, right, I use that as an example. Back in the seventies, all the science said like, you know, power lifting and, you know, high reps and high weight and multiple sets. And then, you know, science says, Oh, that’s actually not how you need to do it.

You could just do like one set and just do it really slow and you can build. And then now it’s It’s hit and you gotta have your heart rate up, and that’s that’s what you know is going to get you the results. And now it’s like, Well, maybe you should just stop eating carbs and eats, um or fat. I know that’s counterproductive to what we’ve been teaching you, and now it’s That’s just the big fat industry keeping you down dog. It’s It’s so confusing and exhausting to try to stay up.

Because all of these, uh, these methodologies are backed by science, right? And if you look at clinical studies, there’s a clinical study that proves that alcohol makes you healthier and there’s a clinical study done at the same time that proves that alcohol is killing you, Which is so funny, because if you want to continue drinking versus quitting, you gonna read, you’re gonna leave the one that yeah, backs your your goals. Right. So let me take a step back because I want to keep this the conspiracy theory thread to the series of events, right?

Like, I wanna make sure that we’re covering where we are today with a conspiracy theories that air premier at this time based off of what we just saw. So a lot of people don’t go back far enough, but we’ll touch on social media here in a second. But here, here’s my philosophy that I think a lot of people misrepresent because to them, uh, the whole idea of conspiracy is kind of new when it comes to like how aggressive it is, how racist it kind of seems. And all these other facets, um, when we’re talking about the conspiracy theory, belief and the will to say Right wing ecosystem.

So going back 2000 and seven slash eight Bush the economy at the time. Right? The housing market was down, Uh, 9. 11 Isis. All of those things lead to the first black president. And when we were talking about people like, uh, needing or seeking understanding what came out of that first black presidency was this first wave of ideological conspiracy theories. How could a black man in America become president, which probably led into how I don’t understand how this would happen in my lifetime for black people like people were crying out of excitement.

But for a lot of the other people, they were like, Absolutely not. There’s cheating. He’s not. Even the conspiracy theories that came out of that election were birtherism with Trump and him not being from America, not being born in America, not understanding what culture Birth certificate. Dude, show me your papers. Bowie. Right. Uh, Then there was one that was, like, this was planned all along from birth. And I’m like, How could you plan something, right? I don’t know. How old What was he like? 55 or something when he was elected president.

But there was a conspiracy theory that, like this, was planned by the Democrats. From this point. Anyway, if you look at a lot of what people were tracking and posting in these little micro messages from the election, they were very targeted. They were about disbelieving in that everything he was doing was destroying America. Yada, yada, yada. We going down this pathway. So you come to today in this Q A non and pizza gate and pedophilia and all of these things, like for a new person. If I was to tell you all of those, like current conspiracy theories today, you’d be like That sounds crazy.

But the reality is they have been getting pumped into the minds of a certain group in America for over a decade. I disagree to some degree. I think that the conspiracy theory train is a long one, and it from a racial standpoint. It’s been there for years, for decades, for generations where Obama made it, Um, what Obama did to the situation was he made that conspiracy theory political divided party, Republican Democrat, hardline stance and then because he’s an African American president or a black president. You’re on that side, and it’s all about black people on that side when it comes to politics and then the steam.

Then, like you’re saying so, then I’ll get back to where we can be. Parallel s So then it’s like, inexplicable. How can a black man be president? How could we America allow this to happen? What could possibly is, cannot be done. Nobody cheated. It cannot be done without, you know, a concerted effort. And when it comes to conspiracy theories, a lot of these come around concerted effort. And I’m not a huge believer that you can get that many people driving in that same direction for something like this to happen.

So some of these things that pop up like Antifa or Q A non I’m like, Yeah, uh, their groups. They’re not as powerful as you think they are. So I don’t buy into that conspiracy theory, bro. They stormed the capital. They did that, but I don’t give them power to inflict change. I I can clearly see that they can throw temper tantrums. I can clearly see that they could make some sort of destructive impact. I don’t give them any kind of power to believe that they can do anything of greater good or greater evil to the point where that it’s going to take over society.

But that is where that’s but that’s where we are. So the whole point of that and this belief in the Q and on stuff is that they had this raw belief that Trump is going to remain in power to bring toe light the pedophilia and arresting Hillary Clinton and like throwing all these people in jail and going down this path of of righteousness through all of this to me. Craziness? Yeah, it’s giving you stories that well, spark your interest or or fuel your ferocity. Eso they keep raising the stakes on different things that one should not, um, one should have a visceral reaction to write pedophilia.

Yeah, eso that just just really weird. So this was the another thing with that conspiracy theory is like, I find it odd that the belief system there waas Clinton. The Clintons are a part of this. Pedophilia rang where Sorry talking about branding and messaging. This is an interesting thing. So there killing babies or whatever trying to get a Drina chrome. And then there’s this piece of the conspiracy chrome, Google, chrome and literally. There are articles about Google having an affiliation on the West Coast with Democrats and trying to kill babies.

Craziness, right. But that’s kind of the point of like, these stories have been going on for years. And so my thing, I guess the point is when fiction turns to action, because this fictitious belief in this outcome that did not come to fruition with so many other outcomes that never came to fruition still didn’t break the belief system. So what? What’s that about? Like, when do we stop believing in a conspiracy theory versus when we keep pushing it? And why never we believe in the Bible. Why are you hitting on the Bible?

Something I’m not hating on the Bible, but the Bible is a man made tail, So it is in our human nature to continuously believe and things that are we have strong convictions towards so funny. I always want to argue with you, but that that is literally one thing I’ve been saying for so long. I’m like man, people don’t understand that the Bible has so many things that ideologically you have to believe in something that can’t be tangibly proven. And I know people would probably argue that. But I’m like, yeah, if the foundation of us is believing things we cannot necessarily see well, it is not crazy to think that we will believe in other things We cannot see with other outcomes that have you ever come.

There you go. I know. And so I’m not telling you that that there’s no holy spirit. That’s not that’s not what I’m saying. You summed it up very well. Way we are built on a foundation of believing in things that we cannot see, but and that we think we see through the actions of the normal average everyday person. Yeah, So there was, ah, book I read by Reza Azlan. I can’t remember the name of it, but anyway, it kind of ended with this view of Jesus Christ, The man that’s it was the breakdown of Jesus Christ, the man And in the end, like if you think about it like, what is the difference between Jesus being divine and Jesus just being a man?

Because the impact on society going forward is just as incredible, right? Like if he was not divine, but was just a Nen credible person with the great views and like the way that he lived his life and people should live their lives in his image as a person, what’s the difference? What’s the outcome like this dude, like if he was a regular person? Is that not just his impactful? Is him being divine? It’s like urban legend, Kind of, Yeah. I mean, I think when if you when you’re talking about religion and they run out of reasons and fax and reasoning, then they say we just have to believe you have to have faith and faith.

Is Thebe pillar the cornerstone of religion, which is nothing you can see, touch or feel. You just have to believe Yeah, and that could be challenging. That is very challenging. That could be very challenging, except for the fact that it is. It’s less challenging because when you look at conspiracy theories and when you look at it, these beliefs they are specific to things that have already happened typically, so like everything that you see here feel that reiterates this awkward belief pattern right. It’s this weird linkage of things that have actually happened, right?

So it’s like you’re just telling a story based off of actual historical events, yours doing in a way that’s like, kind of cryptic, right? But what’s hard toe do is actually, at any moment in time, predict a future outcome based off of a conspiracy theory. And again, I think it’s weird because so many things don’t don’t end up happening. They don’t end up panning out, and people are just like, Oh, it’s fine, It’s pivot, you pivot, you get a you get a spinoff show of the conspiracy theory.

There’s a new angle to come at things. And so that’s what happens when conspiracy theories die. And that’s why I’m not really big into conspiracy theories because some people work so hard to search for an explanation for what they considered to be the inexplicable. And I think that it would. Sometimes if you just look and what’s out there at face value, you will see, you know, sometimes people spend more time reading in between the lines than what’s actually on the line, and that is a challenge. And that’s where conspiracy theories come you know, like there’s some things out there in the world and historical and most of the things that I would say or conspiracy theories I go way back, back way back in the time But I don’t think that, you know Martin Luther King died.

And James Earl Ray, Mr Three First Names did it all by himself. Like they think that there’s more to that story. I don’t think I don’t know anybody that’s that brilliant with three first names that all the assassinate Er’s assassins had three names. Lee Harvey Oswald, you know, like but that’s people. Most people have a first, middle and last name James Earl Ray. Like you know them. I’m pretty sure I’m pretty sure he did. He probably fired the shot, but I’m sure that there was some communication from another party.

I mean, JFK, the second gunman on the grassy knoll. Yeah, s O. I mean, it’s hard for me to get traction around some of these things, but I’m I’m just sometimes you know, if you want to explain what’s happening today, look at the context. Look at what’s they’re making and make your determination. It’s not so far fetched. I have people I know who will give you all this stuff about Cove in 19. How far fetched it is and how it’s fake. And this is And I’m like, Do people are dying?

It’s a government trying to control you, Travis. Ask Ask a family member how real it is whether in the the hospital, you know, ask ask a family ahead. Tell Ask a you disagree. Got something to say? No, I don’t disagree. Oh, the way he hyped it up, I was going to tell you where covert actually came from. Oh, was it a bad? No. His mother Nature bro. She created it so that America’s wouldn’t stop killing her. And it’s not going away until she thins out the population and she slows us down and the pollution goes away and the water gets cleaner and the world can continue to live.

It’s mother nature protecting herself. See, that’s where your wrong Hey ho came from a bat in China. Yeah, which mother nature. But it also came from a lab in China s o Chinese lab bats lab rat, rat eso Which side do you like? I think that it was, um I think that it was created in a lab. You think it was created by the Earth. I think it’s an actual thing that Mother Nature released to kill us off because we suck his humans and she’s not. She’s not just killing bad people.

Everybody’s dying, right? Loved ones getting sick. And it’s it’s nature’s way of just that would be the other conspiracy theories that it is not killing people. It is their underlying conditions that are, you know, the coronavirus is activating. Taking out the week fail, I guess. But it’s just But that’s kind of this whole conversation. Journalism, survival of the fittest, survival of the fittest. Also a theory. It is also a theory theory. It is. I have a lot of, uh, pretty much proven right. I mean, but so why do people then not try to prove their own things fall So, like, this is the thing.

Are people that believe in conspiracy theory stupid. I mean, at the end of day, because I don’t think that they know what it is, right. But I’m like, No, I agree with it. I know, but I’m like, how How is that a thing? Actually, no This is a whole whole different question. How does social media play its role in where we are today? Everybody’s seen this social experiment. But I feel like a lot of people still don’t understand. I haven’t seen it. What? Have you seen it?

What social experiment? Long story short. Obviously. What you and I both know is how algorithms drive people to see what they want over and over again. Yada, yada, yada. So radicalization. Absolutely. But why? Like so? That proves Trump rose to power. No, I know, but I’m like it Was that an unintended consequence of how social media has panned out? Or was that kind of planned? Like, obviously never. It wasn’t planned. Never thought that is that damn smart. It just happened. And then people took advantage and Trump got some smart ass people.

Cambridge Analytica. The leverage it and killed killed the game, So exposed it. And now what? I think you know, going back to faith in Mother Nature in and like, the cycle of life, like there’s gonna be a time Maybe in our lifetime, where social media is gone, disappears, blows itself up like it’s gonna happen. E don’t think so and then out of the ashes will rise one platform and then another, and then we’ll go back into the cycle. Eso it’s interesting. So, you know, one of my people that I like was Elizabeth Warren when she was running, and one of the things that she said that gave me great hesitation was like, She’s not gonna win when she was talking about breaking up your big yeah, and I was like, Oh, people are gonna like that Funny thing is fast forward.

People are exactly talking about that, and it’s like, Oh, we didn’t realize how much power they had and how these things actually worked. And now people are getting more educated how they work. My thing is, as you understand how things work, why are people not disengaging from these really weird fiction toe action conspiracy theory groups? Because I’m like those two things are simultaneously like, How are we going to stop disinformation cycling through right? Because people are taking action on that now, in that I don’t know if it’s I don’t know.

I think that’s just in your algorithm personally, what’s in your algorithm? What’s coming through your timeline? Just sports pretty much sports and music, but I don’t know. We’ll get the my timeline, I guess. Let’s take it to real life. I mean, I double conspiracy theories every day be Yo, man, See, what happened? Was they They don’t like me. Why don’t they like me? Because, you know, um, like, they don’t be like me, So they just they mess with my productivity numbers. I’ll be like, you think a manager is going to take time out of his date Fudge productivity numbers that he’s being held accountable too, as well. Right.

What sense does that make? So people come up with conspiracy theories in real life, you know? And sometimes. And now we know why Travis is not a believer. E dated on seeing it all. I remember, uh, I remember younger in my career. I had a guy come up to me and swear up and down that his boss was racist. And I’m like, you know, he’s black to right. I’m like it was a black dude. I’m like, So you’re Mexican boss. Is racist. Okay, um, not saying it ain’t true, but Okay.

Yeah, man, he makes me do this. This and this. I said, Oh, for real. He makes you do that, huh? Yeah, man, I’m like, the only one who be doing it. He’d be making me do this this and this and be like, Okay, cool. So you know, as in hr professional believe half of what you’re seeing, none of what you hear, unless it happens to be is accurate is me. So then I go out there and I said I started investigating and I start pulling stuff up, and I quickly realized that we have everything documented.

Everything is on a rotation, so I go get the logs. And sure enough, this guy does this once every once a week, just like everybody else on. I remember calling in my office. I said, Man, you wasted immense amount of my time. Any wasted, immense amount of my time with this claim, I tell you, just don’t want to do it. And you think because I’m black like I was gonna go on this crusade? The fact of the matter is, man, we all get paid to do the same things.

Man, if you don’t like what you got to do and go do something else, man. But that’s just one example. I mean, I get conspiracy theories. Hold on that I think that that feeds into Does he get to see what is written about him? So, like a lot of times, if you don’t have access to this stuff we’re tracking Yeah, Then you have to make up your own. Absolutely. If you screw up, I should show you You screwed up. This is how you screwed up Sign right here.

So we both on the same page. If you do not agree, you don’t have to You Can you get not acknowledge that that’s cool. I get it. It’s still what we feel in the expectations as the ones who give you the paycheck like this is it? But man, I can tell you is like so many, that’s just one that comes to mind because it was a very comical exchange. Um, because I could be a bit sarcastic and these experiences, but people come up with stuff all the time.

I was just involved in, uh ah, lawsuit or someone alleged that his managers and I’m not his manager, So it’s not against me. I’m just the hr representative. And this is from a long time ago. Nothing that’s actually current. But I was involved in a lawsuit where an individual was saying that, you know, we were plotting against him from productivity, right? Like and he couldn’t. He knew we had to be plotting against him because his wife also worked there and she was making her productivity. But he didn’t.

He knew he was better than her. It’s like chill. I’ll be like, This is not like for real, like for real. That’s a good point, though, I guess if you you tie in human emotions and insecurities and we all know that you know when somebody’s cussing you out about something and you don’t really know what’s going on there, usually deflecting right, they’re projecting their insecurities or their shortcomings on you. And, you know, if you think about conspiracy theories and what drives people to believe stuff, a lot of times it’s connected to insecurities, especially when you’re talking about this Q. And on and Trump rise the power.

I mean, he tapped into people’s insecurities, right? Like, um, I’m, you know, opinion, Rural America, and I don’t have the right job, and you know what it is because it is not like people and Mexicans are taking all the good jobs. And yeah, it’s Ah, yeah, I’m like it’s, you know, so part of it is is understanding, um, or adhering to or the story that protects you against, uh, you’re real world fears. There’s probably a formula to develop the perfect conspiracy theory and to make it successful.

Oh, yeah. Well, first of all, it’s interesting. It’s not even hard because there’s so many things that are built into our just society that lead us. So, like, I don’t know me not getting hired because I’m black and also not like the inability to prove that. So I could tell myself in 1000 different ways that this company didn’t hire me because I’m black. And then I looked at the company like there’s no black people. They’re my story pans out now, trying to take them to a court of law, right?

Like there’s 1000 ways they could say he wasn’t qualified. He didn’t have the background. He’s literally never worked in this field, you know, like all of those things that you were taking your insecurities turned them into a conspiracy theory so that you can continue to have faith and confidence in yourself. What you got? Okay, Right now you understand. Now you have more data and more experiences, and you’re like, I was probably acting like, a little bit, but it wasn’t qualified, but, like, that’s the thing. So I’m like, you know, people.

But people can live in those spaces for, like, their entire life, and sometimes, you know, think messed up stuff does happen. Does that happen? Absolutely. Yeah, it definitely does. And if it happens once, then you start to see it more, right? It’s like buying a new car. Damn that cars everywhere. Now you didn’t see it before, and that is what social, massive conspiracy theory grow. But when is the conspiracy cars follow you? When you have one just like it. Now they start to show up. So does a conspiracy fruit.

There’s a conspiracy theory evolved into straight back because I’ll take Colin Kaepernick. I was I told you I didn’t believe in one. I did believe that he was being blackballed. I did believe that the 32 owners conspired to do that. Then I was proven that they did. Yeah, well and so but That’s the eso, like some conspiracy theories are not that far fetched, right? And, ah, lot of there’s so many factors that lead to why we should have a disbelief. So, like the government generally, right, like a lot of people have distrust from a lot of different.

You know, standpoints, like black people, are distrusting of the government because of like, because of how we were trying. Yeah, right. So, like, you’re saying it’s legal to do all these horrible things to to commit these atrocities. So there’s distrust their fast forward now that distrust is on policy and taxation and fairness and all this stuff that it’s like, Well, now the rich people are conspiring against the working class and, you know, it’s just there’s so many factors that lead into it. I just It’s sad that we’re in a place where there’s so hyper racially motivated or hyper like so tribal hate kind of absolutely in the and it all a lot of these conspiracy theories that we’re talking about that affect us and affect America today.

You know, if you if you take a look at the definition of a conspiracy theory, it’s it’s rooted in a secret, right? A secret plot, a secret that’s kept from the public and usually held by those more powerful or in a place of power. And that secret is out. It is systemic racism, systematic racism, the entire country of America. It was built on this foundation of racism built into the laws built into the process is built into every system healthcare, education. We’ve talked about it on and on again, and we’ll continue to talk about it because it perpetuates all of these conspiracy theories.

But now it’s not a secret. We’re starting to uncover facts about this system, and we’re starting to track that down as toe where it stemmed from. And so it’s interesting because as those things come to light and are broken down, it reaffirms people’s beliefs that there is something else to distrust because that is breaking the foundation of those beliefs. How come back people get equal footing? How can they become part of our neighborhoods or part of our schools or whatever? That transition’s been over literally the past just 60 years?

Ah, lot has changed, so it’s like it seems like for some people that there that there is this belief that something has to be going terribly wrong for the advancement of these other people. So good, you and we’re coming at this from the opposite direction were three black men. Um, so we come at it from a very black perspective. I think one of the things that you said was things were very hyper racially motivated right now. And it’s a big sense of tribalism. There’s a lot of people in that tribe that we would see as our opposition right now who don’t believe their races 100% don’t believe that their motives are racially motivated.

But they’re not tying it back to the foundation of their beliefs today. And that was kind of a thing with Obama becoming president. That’s where I first saw radicalization. And if if you could run an algorithm that would show what people posted from 2000 to 8 and the frequency you know, I’m sure so deep. So there probably is. Do you think that that’s a rational? Ask for us to be able to ask somebody your average white Trump supporter to, uh, think to deal with the problems with situations or the task of today but to be conscious of the things that they may not have had anything directly involved with from the past and then asked them to, Um, I guess sympathize or empathize.

And I have my thoughts. I’m just posing the question, I don’t know, but I think that that’s where that that’s the place. It’s like if you were to ask them to go back there and track their views today and how they’re not rooted in racism. But I guarantee they haven’t tracked back right. Like they’re just they don’t see it from our perspective. They think they’re out here trying to save the Children from pedophiles. We’re not even talking about race, but it’s like, But the groups that coincide with you are literally white supremacist.

They’re literally, uh, anti Semitic. They’re literally not about everybody. You know. They’re not about everybody’s Children. S o e think a few things. So many things. Uh, eso you talked about, like, you know, trying to convert the Trump supporter right to be empathetic and look outside of themselves. Um, I guarantee there were a few that did that, right, especially, um, especially after the ah, the revolution. Uh, that was televised that failed. There were people like I mean, there were There were, um, thousands, tens of thousands of people right that were there.

But only 800 breached the capital. So there was thousands. People like, Well, that’s just too much like I don’t I don’t believe in all that. I was just trying to, you know, get my boy to be president. And so I think those people are are second guessing they’re questioning their beliefs. How much do I really like this guy? Because, you know, 500 people are now locked up for federal crimes. Uh, then you got the Q a non, The Viking dude who is is slipping. Um, and so, yes, And I think that there is, like, a you know, if you take away like the Maga huge maggot supporters and you just look at like, white people in America.

And they also had to do that, uh, in 2020 they had toe be introspective as a motherfucker and decide. Um, I actually culturally biased. Uh, you know, like without knowing it. And a lot of people did that. And the term Al I came to the forefront, which again I never used before last year. And those are the people that kind of converted to the new the new faith, right? Like Okay, Yeah, you’re right. I’ve been listening to black in the middle, and you’re right, You’re sharing your experiences.

When you went to high school and I had no idea, I guess I was kind of racist or, you know, maybe they didn’t act on it, but they weren’t thinking it wasn’t top of mine. So I think you can disprove or reeducate or persuade, uh, you know, people to come to the other side, but it has. You got to show them the light, right? You’ve got to show them you got this. Show them how they were disinformation or misinformed, how they were missing, formed from day one, right, And show them the possibilities.

They have to connect those those theories to real experiences that they had. They have to have that epiphany and then they have to decide to move forward and and fix it like, how did they change themselves? And that is a big ask. Well, and so that’s where just a thought so like with the K, is like So you go down this conspiracy theory rabbit hole. Which is funny because one of the things that comes out is, um, you know, if you ask some of people in certain conspiracy theory realms, it’s like, Oh, bro, this is so deep.

So it goes deep. Well, one thing is it’s really not that deep. It really just goes in a circle, right? Like you’re not going anywhere you’re not. You actually have never found a solution to whatever your belief is. But I guess my question is, as people follow down social media paths or you know, their tribal paths like, what are the stories that could lead somebody out? Or can a story change? Or like, could a group put together a completely like different narrative guide you out? One of the first things that I thought would happen is like, Alright, so Trump didn’t stay in power.

Not only that, but ah lot of the people that got arrested that probably thought that he would be able to pardon him because he was still president after that happened. He part of a pardon little Wayne, Kodak, black, some Democrats and a bunch of other people and did not do anything for them? Yeah, like he got his people supported me. You’re good to go. I’m out and I’m not racist because I just part right. It’s just weird, cause I’m like I thought, but it’s like who would put together that story?

And what would the value in that story? Because there’s, you know, there’s money involved in conspiracy theories. There’s profit for you to believe. Certain things. Didn’t we give little way in a way, in the racial draft? E Yeah. The black delegation made a trade for Kamala Harris husband Judge. Oh, man, that’s funny, dude. Uh, yeah. So I don’t I don’t What else you got? Oh, I mean, we could go on forever about this, but only when I don’t know if we should touch on specific conspiracy theories or just breaking down like what?

Like, you know, did we break down? Why people believe certain things? What is the go ahead? I think we just come back, Thio. ITT’s about explaining what it seems inexplicable and our foundation of such that just puts us in a position where you either believe or you don’t. And if you you will spend all of your energy and defending your belief or disbar defending your disbelief.