Emotional Intelligence for Leaders: You got it or naw?

Episode Transcript

Alright, we’re back. Is your host? Yeah, Go ahead. Travis. Herman. Uh, all right. These are your hosts. Were you fucked it all up? Hi, We are back.

These are your hosts. My name is Tim Travis Herman. And we’re going to talk about emotional intelligence today. The EQ or lack thereof. Oh, boy, Travis, what is emotional, intelligence and emotional intelligence is it’s really a simple concept. It’s something that we probably all practice to vary level degrees. Some people are good at it, some people are not. But it’s something that is readily, um, talked about, and I guess in leadership terms, and it’s really your ability to understand and manage your own emotions or understand other people’s emotions and use that to communicate effectively or to empathize with others or to overcome challenges including the diffusing conflict and stuff like that.

So that’s easy. Emotional intelligence. They call it EQ as well or emotional quotient. But for me, I, you know, like Nelly would say, um um emotional intelligence man, that’s what it is, all right. And why is this important, Travis? Well, I mean, it’s really important when dealing with others, period. And it’s really important when projecting yourself because you want to have a general understanding of the people around you. You wanna understand how your actions and how your your words your message comes across, and you also want to have, um, a true hold on your emotions you’re feeling so you can project yourself accordingly.

So emotional intelligence. It’s just kind of the understanding of all that. And so therefore, it’s very in, I think today 2021 super important. You’re looking at me. Somebody’s gonna start talking, yes, emotional intelligence. Uh, personally, I feel like it was probably one of the most powerful tools that a person can utilize, um, on their growth trajectory. Uh, you know, I was saying before, you know, like this that the topic start off and I think 95 with the book there was written by I don’t Remember the dude’s name, but I’m like it’s been It probably was nothing back then, but over the past, however many years what, 25 30 years, it’s really picked up steam, especially probably the past five.

And so it is one of the most most I don’t know, viable attributes of the best leaders that we have. Like they all kind of share this extremely high emotional intelligence. Well, things have changed because, you know, like we didn’t leaders used to not care how you felt like that’s what I was going, and there’s a lot of them that still don’t care. Exactly. And people sometimes don’t care how you feel like peer to peer. Friend of friend, uh, siblings, siblings, husband and wife, wife to husband, podcast producer to co host, we know.

But at the same time, as time has gone on, things have changed and what has ended up being more valuable is being able to, um, understand others and be able to build your network or your foundation or your business in a way where you understand your employees, you understand your other C level execs, your understanding people your consumers like, How do you understand your consumers if you don’t understand, like them, right. If you don’t have empathy for their situation, like, why are they buying? You need to understand why they’re buying.

No, I get that. Um, you know, some of the key factors is t putting kind of the meeting notes, self awareness, self regulation, motivation, empathy and social skills. Kind of make up, you know, an EQ if you will. Um, you know, I think we can pick these some of these apart and say some of them really, really don’t matter when it comes to business success. I mean, if you look at some of the the the high power CEOs, they do not have empathy for people below them.

It’s their way or the highway, and that’s how they get to where they’ve gotten right. They don’t spend time empathizing with others and, you know, pulling their other thoughts into the business plan or the product features like this is their idea, and they are their I. Q is off the charts right, which we can talk about the the maybe the inverse relationship between I Q and EQ. But you’ve you’ve seen CEO and, you know, tyrant, type of leader after leader become uber successful, doing it their way and not caring about other people now. Yep.

So, yeah, historically, yeah. And you’ve seen those titans start to fall and you’ve seen that the the biggest brands with the biggest viewership right? The people most engaged. They all have leaders that are highly engaged. They talk about their businesses, community. Now they talk about their employees as teams. Now, like a lot of things have changed throughout the past. Probably 20 years. Like we came up when, Yeah, it was like Cutthroat Jack Welch type, you know, hired fired type leadership. But fast forward to today, man. It’s not necessarily as cutthroat as it once was from leadership.

I would say that I disagree from that perspective in 2021 Herman’s right that it has changed. But in 2021 there’s nobody in this country. Well, let me pull back from that is to say nobody is very, very absolute, and that’s not fair. So what I would say is that the most successful people are empathetic now. You can’t when we say empathetic or what we say having a high emotional intelligence. That does not mean doing what everybody else wants you to do. But the the tenor of today is to be listening or to be considering the thoughts, the opinions of others at various ranks.

So you see a lot of people they may not have direct contact, but they are getting feedback from multiple level, especially when you’re talking about an organization. But let’s take it out of the organization to make it personal in 2021. There’s more parents listening to their Children, understanding their feelings, their emotions than what we’re accustomed to than what we are parents were accustomed to. Our parents gave us, gave us opinions, and when they wanted their opinion, they asked me for it. But that wasn’t a conversation that was very, very fluid, right?

I was told what was for dinner. I was told where we’re gonna go. I was told what to do, and I’m not saying that that was wrong, but that’s what it was. Parents today are operating with more emotional intelligence by getting in tune with their kids feelings and what they want, and so they allow the kids to have more ownership in the household today, and I’m not saying that that’s something. It’s just a change. But kids now have more power in the house than they did. An organization’s employees are speaking up and communicating more than what was in the past, and those are signs of an organization or in a unit having emotional intelligence.

Um, and that is what I see more today, bro. You are wrong. It was emotional intelligence then without a name. But even in that construct, it is still something that we learned at a very early age because a lot of emotional intelligence has to do with the response. It’s interpersonal, right? Like it’s how you are in taking that information. This is what’s for dinner. You can raise hell. You could choose that, right? She chose not to. No, no, I could not have. You could have it would it would not have gone well.

It would not have gone well, right? But you could have still made that the door wasn’t open. The door is always It wasn’t a conversation, it wasn’t an option. You guys are saying the same thing and my thing is like there’s two sides of what emotional intelligence is some like, regardless of which form it comes in, whether it’s authoritarianism or it’s, you know, some level of the fact that he saw that there wasn’t he didn’t have a choice. Shows you how high his emotional intelligence was. Honestly, Yeah.

Like, I mean, whatever was ingrained for you not to react, he showed me the room. Exactly. He was self aware he didn’t want his butt whooped. He had, uh he had ample motivation because his daddy wore snakeskin belt and he saw his brother get beat just before that. So he was empathizing pops belt. Good. But, uh, but if you take it back to the business totally different snapback game. What? Strongman? If you take it back to the business world, I think that you actually see it. You’ve seen it come to the forefront more because we’re talking more about strategy.

We’re talking more about behavior. You’re talking more about those things. You have to understand people at a lot of different levels. And, you know, there’s a difference between how you understatement of the year, right? I mean, shit, you saw, like, if you could understand, how are people going to behave now that their home right, like Doordash is like we’re going all in. We’re going public Shit, you know? So I’m like, being able to understand your consumer, the changing market dynamics, all those things like that matters. Man is huge.

So you went through five different components of it, and one of the ones that I think that we the people or pour it is number one. I think you said, with self awareness, like just not being aware of yourself, your actions and what you project And that’s something I think is a great opportunity for us as people. Well, and I think the hindrance of being self aware is selfishness, which we are very selfish people. And so I would definitely agree with agree with that, Um, you know, we we talked about leaders, and you know that the tyrant type of leaders who just maybe to us have low, um, emotional intelligence.

I want to throw an enigma out there who had the greatest leadership position of all time. The president of the United States. Do you think that Donald Trump’s e que is high or low? I think his emotional intelligence is low, but I don’t negative What exactly? Like negative a million Or like negative one? We start like three or four. Well, I think in reading the grand scheme of his whole realm of responsibility, I think it’s ultimately low. But, um, I think for the answer of the question, it’s actually probably more towards the middle because he reads the room he wants to read very well.

Like he reads the side of the fence that, uh, he wanted to read and he wanted to empower. He read that Great. Now, as far as looking at the whole span of his control and everybody he influences now that is a huge negative, right? Because when he looks at what the people need from a leadership perspective as a great hole, he wasn’t really truly interested in that. And he wasn’t very sympathetic, empathetic anything that was going on on the other side. So, yeah, I would say that it’s negative.

But if I was judging it on a non bias situation, it’s probably middle, middle low, more so than Super super Low, which would be the answer that you would expect now if I’m and I need to let Herman speak. But if, uh but if I’m looking at it from of course mind perspective, I would say it’s extremely low. Yeah, so I started off saying it was low, but the more I sat here and thought about it, I’m actually like, You know what? It’s it’s separate from, So if you interject aspects of, you know and I’m not one to diagnose people But I would say a narcissist, right?

So his motivations are different. So there’s a high likelihood that he has high emotional intelligence because he spoke exactly to what people wanted to hear and the people that he didn’t. It’s not like he didn’t know that, that they weren’t going to enjoy some of that. Some of his rhetoric right and a part of him probably didn’t care. But it’s not like he didn’t know. And in that confusion he was able to do things. He was able to, you know, do things that fueled his intent, which that’s why I brought up a part of the narcissist, which it would be like, you know, solely focused on self self preservation in those things.

But he probably understands both sides and exactly what he was doing. And the outcomes? Yeah, always. You know, for the last four years, I’ve just gone back and forth. I think everybody has, like, is he just really, really stupid or really, really smart? But now we’re talking about different kind of smart, you know? I q versus EQ. And you know as well as you were talking about it to me. I’m like maybe his EQ is off the charts. He just knew exactly what he was doing and how to manipulate.

But now that I’m reading reading more of, like self regulation like, what does that mean? Like leaders who can self regulate themselves, uh, rarely verbally attack others. Uh, they rarely make rushed or emotional decisions. They don’t stereotype. People aren’t. They don’t compromise. Their values are so his score is dropping motivation. Self motivated leaders were consistently toward those goals, so you could say he worked towards his goals because he set his agenda upfront. But did he get any of that shit done? Did he build a wall? Did he do all these things?

And they have extreme high standards of quality of their work, except for this high quality of his work was for self. So if all of those things that you just ext out based off of not meeting what EQ is reversed that and look to see if they actually benefited him personally, I mean, but when you’re talking about emotional intelligence the way Tim just highlighted, you can see how the emotional intelligence is low. Because if you just unpack what you went through, their those step by step. If you come at somebody and you verbally attacked people or you make rush emotional type of decisions with a high level of passion attached to them, or if you start stereotyping people, those are all things that insight, defensiveness.

Those are all things that make people feel as if there’s a barrage coming their way, which makes conflict right and emotional. Intelligence is a lot of your ability to manage conflict. Yes, so So let’s break this down. So I’m looking at this from the dark side of emotional intelligence. But if your motivations are dark, if you wanted confusion if you want it like I think I think I think these are two different sides, the dark side of the coin, as you said. But I don’t really think that if you’re narcissistic, then your emotional intelligence is low, right?

You can’t. You can’t serve two masters. Well, emotional intelligence is all about, uh, you know, working together communication, social skills, right? Like, that’s the other piece, like, social skills And, you know, being a great communicator and being diplomatic, we’re measuring all these things that our previous president would have failed on an EQ test. Which How do you measure like, is there a test for this shit? I believe so, Yeah. It would be interesting to do. Maybe there’s a a buzzfeed version. The region post on our Facebook?

Probably. Probably his one. Um cool. Yeah. Now that’s interesting. So we talked about the people, and today’s day and age Did we establish whether we’re getting stronger or weaker in our emotional intelligence? Okay, Herman, I don’t pass it off to me. I mean, I’ve been I’ve been jumping out there first. I just want to give you an opportunity to go. Okay. Are we getting stronger or weaker? I think in the environment altogether today, I would say, Obviously we are getting weaker. I say that, but there’s so much self awareness and mindfulness and communication through social media channels.

So I think that let me pull back. I don’t think we’re getting weaker. There’s a lot of non profits that are just, you know, being built to empathize for, you know, people and pets and plants that were choosing now to either lean into our our, uh, eq or to lean out from it. I think that that is exactly where we are. So you know, there’s people that I got into it on a Facebook post and somebody told me systematic racism does not exist. Obviously, my like, that doesn’t spark anything in me, right?

I have high EQ. So I was able to combat that with very kind, straightforward answer. Right? But that person, they have low EQ or EI because, like you like or they were just you were just saying the engine like I mean to if you should be able to empathize, telling me about racism or like at least going about it in a certain light, right? Don’t you see that I run a podcast called Black in the middle, but it’s going to piss me off. So you made the conscious choice to just say something carb lunch without any Like I mean, that’s to me. Crazy.

Yeah, well, I mean, I guess that breeds the question. If someone just doesn’t see eye to eye with you, does that mean that their EI is low? But they should be spending the time reflecting thinking, being self aware of like, What is it that I’m saying? What is it that I’m rejecting? Why am I rejecting that? Like a person with high E. I is constantly doing this self analysis on how to react. So, like I utilize it like I’m thinking through everything, like, I’m thinking about what they’re going to say before they say it.

I’m thinking about how I’m gonna react before they say, Like, if you know, it’s going to be a contentious conversation ready for everything that comes at you, how to remain calm, how to keep your heartbeat lows because you care. Well, because I also want to get a point across like nobody listens. Once you start going back and forth like people with low I Q. It’s all about reaction, right? Like something happens, you react. And that reaction is typically not gonna be anything that saves you, right? Like in a in a reasonable adult conversation.

So with the person with the high EQ on the other side of the Facebook message, so you’re saying he would. This person would be exercising. This person would be exercising high emotional intelligence if they would refrain from that conversation. It’s something that is a polarizing topic. Well, I think that they would come into the conversation with the question. I don’t think they would come into it with a like stating facts, but But why would wanna ask a question if they think they know the answer well, to your point, earlier as you define and explain what EQ is, one of the one of the things you said to you was that it does not you refrain from inciting conflict and, you know, dissonance between you and the other person, and that’s exactly what they did.

But here’s the thing, and this is the thing I was gonna bring up. I’m like, I feel like the middle, specifically black people, but probably people in the middle altogether have and are built with a higher emotional intelligence because we are so healthy, were super hyper aware. We know what it’s like to be the only black person. So you’re thinking of everything in every instance. Every good, every bad, like, you know, What are you thinking about both sides? You’re empathizing about both sides, those on the bottom and those on the top Are those on the left and those on the right.

And it’s so funny, because in the middle, the middle is probably the hardest place to get truth from minorities, because we are. So we have such high emotional intelligence like we don’t want to say things, just blanket statements like we want to be kind with our words were thinking shit in this podcast. I didn’t truly open up for, like, a long 27 episodes, you know? But I’m like, it’s one of those things, like, your entire life. You’re kind of like All right, Well, are they going to think this because I’m black, But they’re going to think this because, you know, So you’re just kind of like very middle with your everything.

And by you, you mean you. But I think also us. Yeah, by you, I meant like people in the middle. But I mean very specifically you you do all the thinking. But to your point, though, I’m the same way. Um, I try not to let it slow me down or debilitate me to where I’m like. I can’t think anymore. I can’t make a decision because I’m considering too many opinions or empathizing with too many perspectives. You know, at at some point in time you have to trust your I Q. Right to fill in the gap for you.

Otherwise, you’ll be stuck in the middle forever, and I think that that you have separated that now twice. But I e Q and I Q are not separate from they interject themselves in one another. If you have a high I Q. You’re going to have a high eq e. I think of No, I would disagree. Actually, Just yesterday on NPR, they were talking about Albert Einstein. The fact that he has autism, he didn’t start talking until he was eight. Those who have autism or cognitive disabilities don’t have a high EQ because communications, So let’s take the most parts, take out people with mental disabilities.

Would that would that we got to take them out? That’s not a very inclusive thing to say. That’s not inclusive, but I’m just talking about like those things should align. Now, if there are other cognitive things that impede the flow of a high I Q impacting high e I or vice versa. I think that would be a hard case to make. I think if we were to, like, plot these on, like a sign curve or some shit there is, you know, a point where they kind of rolled together.

But once you get to the top of the I Q like that, EQ starts to dip, right, because there are highly functioning, you know, brain just can’t process all the emotions, right, because then you’re taking up too much brainpower. It depends on it Depends on the place in the workplace. If you have high E I and you can let somebody go and not have to pay, you know, uh, what’s the unemployment? Because you understand everything that’s going on, you know what they’re gonna say and they talk themselves out of the job, but they walk away so you don’t have to fire them.

That is high. You I’m just in the code A sack three times. Where did he go? Yeah, but yeah, you went around the cold sack. But but I will say from a personal standpoint, from a personal standpoint, that’s what I That’s why I kicks in those when I’m having those type of conversations. Um, my number one thing is, Hey, you’re gonna have a tough conversation about somebody’s employment. Let’s try not to get shot. Um, so let’s have this conversation in a way that is productive, that you understand why we’re in the place we are.

You understand it’s not personal and that these are just based on these set of events or this set of circumstances. This is why we are where we are. But one thing that I learned very early on is that these are real life conversations. So if you want to talk about a time when it’s important to have good emotional intelligence for me, it’s you’re having real conversations. You’re impacting somebody’s life in a huge way. So I’m gonna sit down and tell you that I’m going to take money out of your pocket.

It is not a time for jokes. It’s not a time for the organization to feel like they’re the victim. It’s not an opportunity for, um any other unnecessary digs, jabs or anything like that because it’s a really serious subject, right? So you want to have it in a conversation where you have that person understanding. This is in the the road, and there’s another road that’s going to open up, but you have to go search for that road. I can’t tell you what that’s going to be, but it’s very important in my world, too.

And this is one of the more serious things that discussions I’ll have to have. But I mean, I understand I’m taking food off your table. Um, I’m taking ability, financial freedom away from you. It’s gonna be a This is a real serious subject. Um, but it’s key for me to understand and try to help that person as much as I can, despite the circumstances, right? And so if two people have high emotional intelligence, they’re gonna be able to take that feedback and they’re going to focus on the future, right?

Like you’re gonna be able to do that in a way that they’re going to understand things in a way that it’s it stinks. But, you know, it is what it is. A person with low emotional intelligence is not going to listen to what you say. They’re just going to hear you say you’re no longer employed and that’s where you get worried, right? Like they’re gonna come back super upset. But if you know that and you have, you know, super high emotional intelligence, you don’t have to worry about that because you’re going to frame everything in the right way.

Yeah, and that probably. I mean, if we were, I would imagine HR professionals or fantastic with their, you know, with their emotional, they would have to be no, no, to thrive. I mean, I guess sometimes I mean, I guess the problem in the workplace it’s not. I mean, it’s not across the board. It’s really down to the individual, not necessarily profession. It’s really down to just you having from a leadership standpoint. Are you having from just a personal standpoint, because let’s just remove leadership from the equation.

It’s you having just a sense of understanding the impact of your actions and the conversations you’re having and the emotions of not only yourself and the others involved in the situation, right? Yeah. I don’t know, man. I just think that we as in black people in the middle, we learn emotional intelligence extremely early on. And we carry that with us our entire lives. So does it. You you talked about being in the kind of in the middle, understanding both sides of the fence. Do you feel like that positioning of being in the middle frustrates you?

And when it comes time for you to speak something you’re passionate about because you Well, that’s what I’m saying. Like I feel like that. That part of me, you hold back right, because you don’t know how so, like in the middle, being black, like oftentimes you’re the only black person. So you’re hyper aware of how people might end. Take your viewpoints, your suggestions, any of those things, right? So you either hold back, don’t say, but you’re doing that because you can read the room or, you know, like I know that person is gonna be super upset if I make this point and that’s going to spark an argument, and it’s just not worth it.

I’m the only one here. Nobody is going to have my back like, you know, But I think that emotional intelligence should empower us to be able to have that conversation productively, not to stifle us. Well, I think that that comes over time, right? Like when you get better in verbalizing what it is you want to say when you can say whatever and also get your point across strong without impacting anybody like that’s that. Is that growing? And I mean, it’s something that you gain traction with every step of your life.

And that’s something that we, you know, work on with our kids. Like, how do you get your message across in a way where you’re talking about something that could be a sensitive topic could be a polarizing. That’s easy. And it’s not inciting conflict. Sure, So it would be a statement like, I don’t always say the right thing, but I have to say something, which is a great way to to start off with saying anything that you want because you can go back to Well, maybe it didn’t come out right.

Or, you know, like you give yourself leeway in how you communicate. Okay? You can keep that one for using that tomorrow. What else? Uh huh. Well, for me when I’m talking about. I’ve used to just sit there and watch the crossfire. Um, that’s not a good place for me to live in. There’s too much going on that I see. And I understand to just, um, be passive and just sit there and watch the crossfire. So I think I try to make sure that I’m speaking from a place of authenticity.

So then, you know, these are my my views, my points, Um, but I also try to say things in a way that are very matter of fact. It’s not. He’s putting out bold, wild opinions. It’s not me putting out, um, non credible sources like I just basically, um, say what I say after it’s like I’ve analyzed it and I’m speaking with the level of comfort and familiarity. But when we we talked about in the past, anxiety, emotional intelligence and anxiety go hand in hand, right? The inability for you to express yourself, the inability for you to be understood, the inability for you to be able to effectively communicate can lead to that anxiety.

It can lead to you suppressing yourself. It can lead to you being combustible. And so, as we have these two different topics. I see them just, you know, flowing right together. And so for me, Um, I just really work hard at trying to put a message out that speaks to whatever I see or whatever is going on or whatever is passionate, but it’s not meant to poke necessarily. It’s meant to either state a firm opinion or to, um, Dr Progress or push the conversation forward. Uh huh.

It’s interesting because all of my emotional intelligence is based around whatever interaction I’m in. I have a very clear goal, regardless of what it is, whether it’s I’m trying to, you know, raising my kids to do something that I need them to do. I go about that in a way where, like, I understand why they’re not going to want to do it. I understand that they’re probably going to give pushback. And so I try to, you know, knowing those things, I try to approach them in a way that gets to my end goal of getting something accomplished with as little friction as possible.

But it does take time thought effort. Um, yeah, the same way at work, you know? Well, my Tyler’s make me very frustrated, and they take my e Q. Down quite a few notches. Um, so there’s this iceberg image online has to do with, like Freud’s break up of, like, you Know, your personality and your character or whatever. But also there’s a couple of different versions, and one shows kind of the I. Q. You know, like, you know, the iceberg. Most of its underwater etcetera, etcetera. Um, I Q determines 20 to 25% of business success e Q. Which would be below the water determined 75 to 80% of business success.

Um, so I thought that was insightful and really supports your you know, your your claim. I thought that was insightful and really supports your statement about. They have to work together in order to see success right here, right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s the whole thing. Like, you know, I don’t know, man, like there was a time in America where it’s just like, yeah, you could be cutthroat because there weren’t that many options. Now we live in a world where there’s tons of options. So what’s gonna separate you?

You. Who’s led a team that’s just constantly turned and burned fired people constantly. You don’t give a damn. Well, guess what? People are going to buy your product because they actually like this company that, like any company out there right now that talks about what they do for their employees and their employees are happy and, like people, like spending their money. Yeah, well, uh, I agree with the first part. You said I think it’s more of Yeah, you’re getting sales because you produce a great product. But now your employees are quitting, and now you can’t keep anybody staff.

And now your production down now, your companies out of business because you’re bored just fired you and you can’t get any funding, you know? So it’s like the top of the iceberg is like balanced performance and decision making, and you’re killing it. But you’re not self aware. You’re not keeping your team motivated, you can’t manage yourself. You’re horribly, you know, managing social skills. And you can’t empathize with anybody internally. Which is all the shit that happens underneath the surface behind the scenes. Yeah, So you got to have the full iceberg know that, like that is the motivation and getting employees to work hard, right, like we’re all in this together to achieve this common goal.

And if everybody’s on different pages, I mean, obviously, that’s not gonna work out. If everybody has different motivations, you know, or they don’t see your vision right. So like even being able to tell a clear vision and be excited about it and include them in certain aspects of work like the decision making or like a nonprofit to work with are like, Oh, we’re going to support them because we support you It all worked, You know, It just it just works like So, for maybe some of us around this table or people listening in who think that their e q or E I, uh, is not where they wanted to be?

How do you improve your emotional intelligence? Who t boned go? Well, you don’t know. Sure I do. You know, when it comes to emotional intelligence, first thing. First things first. Listen more than you speak. That’s the biggest thing, right, because, right, like that’s not even Do that do that because a lot of times those with low e Q or E. I are trying to get a narrative of push narrative of Push the message and you’re not truly understanding what’s going on around. And then it comes across a lot of the different characteristics or traits that we’ve highlighted before.

First things first, I would say, Listen more than you speak Yeah, no, I could not agree more. It’s yeah, no. And it’s it’s funny because I think about like an an introvert or somebody that’s like, Not, you know, you can have high emotional intelligence and still be introverted, right? Like it just same thing, how you intake information, how you analyze it, what you care about. And then whenever you do speak, even though it may be limited, it might be super power. It probably is going to be super powerful because you’ve been thinking about it, internalizing it for so long.

Um, and just to piggyback on on that transition, Herm, I would say, is to put it into practice, put yourself in social situations so that you can, you know, get the get the reps so that you can get the reps and you can, uh, listen, and you can process and then you can respond and you can work on your communication and you can work on empathize. I mean, there’s there’s tips to empathize, you know, like you, like you said, Like there’s phrases that you can go to phrases that you can start with automatic responses that will trigger what you say next or how you make people feel next.

So there’s definitely ways to improve that. Another thing I would add is like, uh, pause your reactions right? Like it’s almost like any part of a negotiation like the person who talks too much loses. Yeah, it’s like, Yeah, like a poker game. Like, you know, somebody’s going to say something to spark something right? Like don’t give them the reaction they want. Like, don’t give up your power because you can control how you react literally is something that I worked through with my oldest child quite often, but I’m like, you know, I want to empower her to, like a man internalized.

Don’t react like if you react like that is a low I Q kind of thing like That’s, I don’t know, this is gonna be really weird, but like you think I always think about a person that gets killed in a road rage incident, right? Like dude, they’re do died in Lee’s summit on a road rage Act like you were never going to see this person again. You just had this one interaction. And now somebody is dead because of that reaction, right? Like, calm down. Yeah, I’m working with that.

Working on that with my youngest. Um, take a deep breath encounter for it. Sounds silly, but it works. So like my kids see me do this in traffic. Obviously, I drive a lot, and I’m like, whenever somebody almost cuts me off, The one thing that I say out loud is man, I’m so glad that we’re safe, right? Like as long as they don’t hit us. Cool. I might be super hot inside, but I never let them see that as soon as they get out that car because I’m like, they say everything, you know?

That’s what you say. That there is one time that I have stepped out of bounds, man. Uh, I mean, if you want your kids to follow your lead, you want to give them those things without telling them what you’re doing like that. What would you do if the kids weren’t there? Oh, my God. Yeah, Alright. Hop it up it on that one. Um, all of this requires an extensive self evaluation and a fair self evaluation, right? Like you really kind of need to analyze yourself and analyze your triggers, right?

You also need to analyze how you project yourself so well, you know, how do you get your message to come across? If you understand yourself and you can understand what our knocks or negatives or you can understand, you know how things escalated quickly. Then you can work on putting these guardrails in place or putting these, uh, these thought logics to the couple of these behaviors in place, and so a fair and a fair self evaluation is critical. Um, you know, we’ve talked about it in the past, you know, just looking at yourself, understanding your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats.

But when we’re talking about your behavior, sometimes you just you have so many situations and interactions that you’re coming at your going through. People are giving you data all the time, giving you data with your body language. They’re giving you data with their tone in their voice inflections. They’re giving you, uh, data with the actual words that are coming out of their mouth, and you have to be conscious of that type of stuff and use that data whether you agree with it or not, to help guide your decisions.

Going forward. Do so. One of the things that I do when I communicate with my team early on, right? Like, Oh, you’re going to be a leader. Alright, well, let’s just out the gate talk about communication. And so I let him know on the front side, which then helps things on the back side. So it’s like, Hey, look, if I ever come across extremely direct and quick with no emotion in a text or message or an email, that is only because I am super busy. So don’t take or read any deeper into that.

That sets up a great foundation, because then it’s like, Yeah, I got your message that can take it As you know, blank. You sound like you sound like the Wolf and Pulp Fiction if I’m Kurt because time is of the essence. It’s true, man. But I’m like you can set up a lot of the things that you need to keep pushing forward, but you have to think through. Like, what is it? Like what? I’m like that to me came to fruition. When you see somebody read a text message and be like, Oh, man, what does this person mean?

What are they saying? And you see somebody trying to decide if they’re getting angry, buying their wheels and that because that slow down productivity and morale and all kinds of emotions Yeah, so T bones are responsible as go listen to Episode two and four. Got it. We’ve been giving out. We’ve been giving out free game all along. Awesome. Awesome. Cool. Well, anything else on this EQ? Absolutely. Heaven. We haven’t even scratched the surface, right? Like my question to you too. You two, uh, finally married men. Do you have?

Do utilize emotional intelligence when dealing with your spouse is Obviously Obviously we’re still married, aren’t we? Right? You’re right. You’re You’re teaching my bad teaching school school of young brother like myself on, you know, reading the room at home like don’t go into it. How many people are in this one, man? Because it seems like, say stuff like I’m so happy you about one more pillow. Oh, sweet. more Amazon boxes? Yes, it I mean, it seems like we talked a lot about organizationally, but it seems like a critical I’m going to break those down right now.

It seems like a critical trait that needs to be utilized at home. So do you. I mean, how does how does it translate to the to the home life for you all? Yeah, that’s a great question, Tim. I know it is a good question, and, you know, if we kind of break it down, um, with the same aspects that we’ve talked about self awareness, self regulation, motivation, empathy and social skills. You know, I think there’s a few important, at least in my relationship. You know, one is motivation, right?

So even and I are both high achievers, and so that is that has become a a pretty pillar aspect of our relationship is to keep each other motivated. And so we do that by, you know, not enabling in a bad word. But helping the other one, the the other, um, you know, So when it comes to health and fitness is, um, as I’ve talked about the last 51 episodes, you know, even she knows that I a don’t cook, can’t cook won’t cook. So she takes care of that and she meal preps.

And so that gives me the motivation to want to eat healthy, but then to follow up that I don’t want to ruin it. So I’m not going to eat cookies or I’m not gonna over, you know, drink too much. And I’m going to try to work out to hit my goals. And so, you know, from the business side, you know, she she was She was in 95 she loved it when we first met like that was her brand. I opened her eyes up to entrepreneurship and controlling your own circumstances, and she will never go back to work for another person.

And now she’s She’s a better business owner and business leader than I am. And so she’s taking that. She’s taking that and on a you know, we find ourselves on date night. We’re talking about, you know, how do we motivate each other and our employees? And it’s It’s about business, you know, 95% of the time. But it’s okay because that is something that we both enjoy. We have shared passion, Um, and and we talk about. And so motivation in and of itself is is key, you know? What are we saving up for?

Um, you know what? When our kids to be when they grow up, how do we raise them? You know, let’s stay motivated. Stay positive. I mean, I think that’s that’s a pretty big aspect. Yeah, No, I think it all kinda, you know, in our household breaks down two goals, right? So it’s like, you know, there’s no reason to be mad at one another if we constantly no, like what it is that we’re trying to achieve. And, you know, like, I never put the onus on myself. I think I’m always trying to learn and read the room, right.

So, like asking a lot of questions like temperature checks. I’m like, How you feeling? Like house work, like just the simple things, but not just like house work for the whatever, but actually reading into it like we’re talking about growth within your company. We’re talking about things that you learn, you know, just making sure that those conversations are deep, not surface level, but also with the intention of adding value as a partner into their goals and helping them achieve. I think it’s important at home to take the data that is being given to you, right?

Like you look at them, them signs them cues and, uh um, and get a feel for you know where to take a conversation. How far to push the envelope, How when to pull back when the press forward. When I ask more questions when to be supportive, one to just shut up and not say a word. You know, just under. Like taking that data at home. But I guess another question for you, Herm. Uh, passive aggressive. That’s how, man. So how about with your kids? Like, how do you?

Um, hold on. Hold on. We’re not done with wife yet. Okay, My bad. I need to go through the list. Do you think at school these listeners real quick, we’ll take them to church. So So Herman’s point about the communication with his team, Um, and the self awareness piece is very key, at least for me. Pre Sinus surgery More specifically. Right. So I would often be in a horrible mood by the time I get home. Ah, after I’ve had a headache from 9 30 to 4 30 all this work and, you know, hopped up on Tylenol and Advil and all the medicines I told you about earlier that I was taken before I I got my shit fixed like it’s a simple text pre empted the strike, babe, I’m in a horrible mood that lets her know, too, either stay away, either, which she doesn’t.

She’ll just give me more love, and she will comfort me and make sure that I’m in a better mood when I get home. Because if I’m in a horrible mood and I’m stressed out and I’m in pain, I can, you know you can pop off. You got a short temper and then you have to. Tyler’s at the house, too, man, it’s It’s a recipe for disaster. So just giving her a heads up and same thing with her, like if you know, on a Saturday, if her team is not outperforming, her goals are not selling.

She’s gonna come home a little bit down, so you gotta be ready for that. So we always check in with each other. You know, how’s how’s work like Herman said. And not just saying, like, you know, to cover the basis, but no, really, how is work? How are you guys doing? So I followed up like Are you guys? Did you guys hit goal? Oh, you had sales. How many? What was the ticket by, like diving into that? So you you get an idea of what frame of mind she’s in or I’m in and also you genuinely care.

And that definitely helps her communicate. I’m sure to you, because if you’re just saying house, Hey, how’s work? It’s a lot of times that’s as non authentic as saying. What’s up? How you doing? How was your day? Like we say that and then we dive into the details. You also have to build that confidence in and feedback or accepting whatever they have to say to right. So it’s like, you know, like things aren’t always going to come across, but often times like there can become a rift, like if if your partner cannot communicate honestly because you’re going to react because you’re gonna pop off because something’s going to make you upset.

I’m like me. That’s why I never get upset. But I’m like you know, because we need that. I’m like, if I’m messing up like, let me know so I can change. You don’t not say anything because, like, I’m super aggressive or anything like that. So sure. And I’m actually the opposite. Like I do get upset. You know, there’s certain topics that, you know, just instantly pissed me off. And like, what? We’re working on them, Uh, like my family. Like any time we talk about family, anytime we talk about fame, like something in me, just like it’s like super defensive and personal, it doesn’t matter what it is.

It could be like, I don’t know, you know, Did you? You see your cousins instagram picture blah, blah, blah. And I’m you know, so when when those topics arise or if you have to talk about money or money and family, like she she knows, like, all right, I got to be in a good mental space. He’s got to be in good mental space before we can have this conversation. Because these are hard conversations that we need to actually have. You know, money or that money, you know, money.

My trigger, too. So, um yeah, so no you’re You’re absolutely right. Um, you know, I’ll ask her, uh, did you have a Red Bull today? If the answer is no, you stop at the gas station and you get her right before you get home. You know, because then I know, all right? Even if it is in a good place, we you know, now I can give her some bad news or whatever, bro. Real talk. Um, So So, yeah, I think it’s just it’s just all about communication.

And, you know, like, you say, looking at the data. Um, because I don’t agree with you the way you say data. Obviously, you didn’t watch Star Trek growing up, but but it’s it’s looking for those signs, um, you know, taking temperature checks, etcetera, etcetera, and you And that’s the It’s what you’re doing business. You know, they call it walking the halls, your CEO’s walk the halls and they keep tabs on their employees and they check in personally, not just running the company from, you know, the corner office or Okay, So here’s a whole other thing.

Obviously, I feel like we’re going to come out of the whole covid thing with a way greater emotional intelligence because we’ve been able to do it thus far. I’m like I’ve been on, you know, the zoom calls I’ve been on. But like having entire teams, like not being able to walk the halls for a year to I mean, as long as it’s been going on, right, Like I think people are gonna come out of this and I know how to act. They don’t forget how to act.

They’re gonna be too excited to be back around people. Guards are gonna be down. Yeah, but you still I mean, listen in the workplace. Wait a minute, man. Going to the club every time I know how to act. Oh, man. Yeah, Maybe I’m totally wrong. Maybe emotional intelligence out the window, people just going to be Just leave it at home, man. No, I agree with you. Um, but again, some people will know how to act. Some people won’t. I think that’s kind of the the safe bet for most things in life.

You can’t put everybody into one bucket. Yeah, it probably all comes down to how you spent your coronavirus time. Like if you actually spent more time being introspective, understanding yourself. Maybe why you are the way that you are and and just, you know, kind of like mapping out your progression and wins and losses. And, you know, if you yeah, no more about yourself, then you’ll be able to, you know, have a better pathway forward. I agree. Um, back to the wife. You think self regulation not provoking a fight, right?

Like that’s any relationship. Don’t come at somebody’s sideways because you’re not going to get a productive. You’re not gonna get the response that you want, And it’s not gonna be It’s gonna lead into a productive, uh, conversation. And we’ve We’ve done that to each other, and we know when we do it, you know, whatever the reason. And then we apologize. We make up, and then we have that conversation. All right? Yeah. You know what? I fucked up. I should not have led in. I’ve said goddamn. I’ve said this so many times.

I should have started with that. My bad babe. Um and, you know, we just we all fucked up. But to be self aware and to know when you do that, then be self regulated the next time you have you know you have something to say, but, you know, don’t stereotype like, don’t stereotype your wife. Don’t put her in a category with other women. That’s a bad move. Especially stay in control. The comparing contrast game, man, that’s that’s the game you don’t want to play. Oh, man, that hits on so many different levels.

So, like, even like that is how to get away from wives. Like in, uh, when you have to, like, have a hard conversation with an employee, Right? There was a joke thing I couldn’t come up with, just laughed at it. But no, like, you know that that employee is going to benchmark their stuff against somebody else, like, well, so and so comes in late two. But keeping it well, this conversation is about you, like, you know, keep that focus on, you know, like even kids like they’ll try to like, well, so and so well, this and that, you know, But it’s like, No, we’re not talking about that.

We’re just talking about that were independently right, you know, But I’m like it is one of those things where it’s like, you know, that that’s coming, so you have to be ready to combat it in a very calm and collected way, fellas, do we need to be having emotional intelligence conversations with our kids? Do we need to be? And obviously, you don’t sit down with them and be like today I’m gonna work on emotional intelligence. But do we need to be having conversations? Um, and really focusing on building our kids emotional intelligence to help them get ready for the world.

The world is going to teach them some of that, and it is on us to teach them other aspects of it. Like if you react. This is how people are going to look at you. You know, if you do certain things without thinking about them, these are the consequences, right? Like I mean, you gotta know how to control yourself, right? Yeah. I mean, I’m just gonna It’s a car And put on Season two Episode six of Black in the middle. Let them learn it. This is emotional, but I mean, they learned through watching us, right?

So, like, if you never watch this freak out, if you if you always if my kids can look at me when they’re like, Oh, that’s something that might have made him frustrated. Or if they see frustration, their their kids pay so much attention is crazy, and I think that’s the most important. One of the most important things you said today and you’ve you’ve said a few times, especially we talk about kids, is they learn by watching us, and you can talk to your blue in the face.

But you know, if they see you doing something else, then they’re never going to do what you say. Um, yep, since this announcement, I forgot. I think you have to teach them to have to decipher what’s in between the words a little bit, you know, understanding, meanings, understanding. Um, what the fruit of actual conversation is, you know, not necessarily just the words that come out of someone’s mouth, right? Oh, man, it’s such man seventh grade, right? Like it’s really fun because it’s one of the things I’m like, Hey, man, I know that you have this project and I know that you are talking about like what you see.

But like honey, always look for what’s not being said. Always, always ask yourself. Inverse is true, you know, just to try to help her just see or analyze things in a certain way. Like, Dude, it’ll be a skill set that will be very valuable. I think generationally we process things so much differently. Or maybe they’re just having caught up to the level of the game that we are at. But I think one of the things that is important as us as as parents, is to make sure that you have your kid emotionally equipped to deal with rejection, Uh, counter, uh, counter points or alternative perspectives, Um, and even praise because sometimes we you know, praise goes to your head, which gives you this false sense of, uh, entitlement or this false sense of power.

Um and so I think that’s really important for us to be, um, honing those skills So your kids are prepared to deal with all of that and still be, um, effective communicators. Effective teammates effective, um, spouses to It’s so funny. You said that. So one of the things is embracing failure, right? Like I know that seems like an odd way to build that emotional intelligence, but I’ll never forget. Uh, my daughter, like, bombed a math test, but she tried really hard, right? And so it was the first time that she was, like, embarrassed, like she like she felt it because she knew she tried hard.

She just didn’t, you know, whatever it was, and then it comes to find out. Like she missed one aspect of, like, some part of an equation. And she just did that, like, on everyone you know. So I’m like, Hey, you gave it your all. You have this one thing you tried your best, but I’m, like, embrace that failure, you know, to double check next time. Did you double check? And then, like, Well, I didn’t double check. Okay, Well, like that’s it’s there, you know? So that’s obviously the only way to learn that.

The only way to grow good story here. Just I don’t know, man. I just get I just want people to be less mad about stuff that like, either you can control or that you should control. And I think the world would be a better place, or that’s not going to matter in two years. Yeah, I’m like, man, make it matter by learning dude fights that happened in the club because somebody stepped on somebody’s shoot. You are never going to see that person again. You got your teeth?

Not Yeah, but sometimes you just have to make a point that you’re going to watch where you step. That is true. But also, is it worth it? Don’t need to be. Yeah, I’m like these Air Force ones cost $109. So you gotta catch this two piece so you don’t do this. But there’s another side. So my thing is like, extra crispy. Hold up. I’ll buy another pair with hot sauce. You buy another parents? Yeah, I ain’t got but that’s what I’m saying. Like, you can also turn it around like you don’t have to feel like whatever.

You just like these are throw away. I’ll get another. It’s just the mentality. But then he goes back home. He’s like, Hey, maybe if we got less Amazon packages coming through, get another cats that grill with boats have that. But that’s I mean, that’s a part of that building. Well, you know, I want to have the building confidence when you ain’t got shit episode that’s coming. That’s gonna do that. That was super important topic. Thank you till you make it. Do people don’t know how to build?

People don’t know their value when the shit is falling down. And we need to talk about that because I think it will hopefully possibly impact anybody going through some hard shit because we’ve all been there. And if you haven’t been there, should be there at some point. Like Like you have to know how to rebuild. But that’s for another day.