Overturning Roe v. Wade: More than Banning Abortion

Aug 4, 2022 | Season 3

We are three black dudes from the no coast and we are not about to sit here and talk about how banning abortion in America will affect us. That will be in part 2 of this series with a special guest.

However, when looking at this drastic move through a political lens, the Black in the Middle crew has pinpointed a conservative strategy for this country’s return to states rights. That’s what this episode is about and it’s a rollercoaster of a ride. Hang on friends.

Hosts & Guests

Travis Brown

Herman Watson

Tim McCoy

Black in the Middle Podcast episode gems

Overturning Roe v. Wade: More than Banning Abortion

00:01:40 “What was crazy about it is it’s a topic. It’s a topic in 2022. When Roe vs. Wade, the original decision was in 1973.” ~Travis 


00:01:50 “Yeah, it took 50 years, it took a 50-year strategy. And that’s why I’m like, “You know what, maybe we should talk about what a 50-year strategy looks like and what that outcome is.” ~Herman 


00:10:25 “But united, we are strong, we are mighty. And we are a force to be reckoned with. The minute we start to fragment ourselves, we’re vulnerable, we are weak. And we are unequal. And that’s a big, big problem. But that’s kind of where you’re going because people are getting pitted against each other. Like, take where we are in the middle of the map. Right? We’re located right here between Missouri slave state, and Kansas, a free territory. But in today’s translation, this is a Missouri anti-abortion state, and Kansas, potentially not one” ~Travis


00:09:31 “So while it seems like that the reality is we want to live in a cohesive nation. And so when you think back to this to the party dynamic, a lot of Republicans are like, oh, you know, it was Republicans to free the slaves, but I’m like this party switch. When Democrats started leaning one way and Republicans started leaning a different way. It was all about state rights and decentralization. Conservatives wanted the freedom to have more state control over stuff, which is the direct line with Jim Crow laws and segregation and non-integration. Democrats.” ~Herman 


00:47:59 “And, and there’s been a lot of protesting and a lot of movement has made right has been made with you know, some states now, you know, you people can get married at the same sex like great. Yeah, we’ve been making progress, right? Okay. So at the same time in society, this fluid thing has been happening, more and more kids, people, adults, whatever had been changing their minds making different decisions coming out, etc, etc. Like, it’s been like a tidal wave, would you say Correct? Yeah. Okay. So, based on what you said earlier about culture, culture breeds culture. Technically, over the last 50-100 years or whatever, we have been progressing to a more fluid accepting six society and thus the legislation has been changed and adapted creating this culture that culture has now created more of it right now than is starting to change. So legislation now says this is unacceptable as a culture, therefore, fewer people will go down that road, and pretty soon we’ll be back to where no one came out of the closet. No one was changing their gender, no one was raising their hand and saying I’m different. I feel different. That’s where we’re going we’re undoing all that because one it’s a cause and effect.” ~Tim


Toggle for full episode transcript »

Tim 0:00
Okay, we are back. This is your host, Tim.

Travis 0:03

Herman 0:03

Tim 0:04
And today we are going to talk about Roe versus Wade. Oh boy. Now we are not three guys that are going to talk about the ramifications that have to do with overturning Roe versus Wade as a woman.

Travis 0:16
Well, that’s good, because I’m going to be slightly unqualified.

Tim 0:20
Just a little bit.

Herman 0:20
I look I was trying to push him like, and now we can talk about Roe versus Wade from the male. And then I was thinking about, Oh, the one thing I’ve recognized this past week or two weeks, is that we don’t know enough about women period.

Travis 0:32
Just don’t recognize that longer.

Herman 0:35
But from what is this, what that means, right? Like I was talking to somebody that they were like, you know, my wife has, what is it? IVF thing? Yeah, protect and it’s like, she illegal now? Because of contraception? An IUD? Yeah, yeah. You don’t know. And I was like, Yeah, well, I don’t know how that would play out in overturning Roe versus Wade. But yeah, that is gonna be like, there are all these normal female things. Like, you know what that episode is next week?

Travis 1:00
Well, she got it. She’s grandfathered in. That’s what will be my debate. I

Herman 1:04
don’t think there’s anything to assume right now. Like,

Travis 1:07
she’s grandfathered in stays. Yeah.

Tim 1:11
I mean, it’s, it is crazy. Like, I remember when the opinion got leaked, right? And I was telling him like, Herman, this is not going to happen, man. This is not that’s why it got leaked is so that we can make sure this doesn’t happen. They’re going to change their mind. This is not. This is not real. And you looked at me like I was an idiot. And you just laughed like you are now. It fucking happens, bro.

Travis 1:40
What was crazy about it? It’s a topic. It’s a topic in 2022. When Roe vs. Wade, the original decision is 1973.

Herman 1:50
Yeah, it took 50 years, it took a 50-year strategy. And that’s why I’m like, You know what, maybe we should talk about what a 50-year strategy looks like and what that outcome is. It’s a slow play. Hey, man, I look, man, it’s a slow play. But I’m like, but if it goes to where you want it to go, if you are the strategist mapping this out then it is currently a winning strategy. So I wanted to unpack where are we actually going.

Tim 2:16
Sorry, my brain is going somewhere else. This podcast could be the anti-Republican strategist Think Tank. In the last few episodes, we got the turning point. Yeah. Right. Yeah, we got the trajectory of whatever we’re talking about the bad whatever tragedy trajectory of America we got, like patriotism.

Travis 2:40
Yeah, somebody’s gonna show up here with black suits.

Tim 2:43
Or just all blue

Herman 2:49
jeans what I am just black.

Tim 2:52
But no, but real talk. It is a travesty. It’s an effing travesty. And we are going to talk about it. We’re not going to talk about it by ourselves, we’re gonna have some guests, some specially invited guests. And you’re gonna get the perspective of abortion and Roe versus Wade from multiple, different avenues you’re going to hear we’ll talk about it with other women in the room. Because I’ve been affected by abortion and not abortion. And we’re gonna have people from the government from the policy. So we’re gonna hear this stuff that lay people like you and I don’t get a chance to talk about Yeah. But the oath, or not the overall impact, I guess the shit?

Herman 3:49
Well, I think we can call it just the overarching strategy. So like, this is just one aspect of a much broader situation.

Travis 3:57
Well, I think that when you look at it, it’s the action. The Roe versus Wade, like, that is a turning point and litigation. And that is something that I mean, deserves its own deep dive,

Tim 4:14
because it took 50 years to do. It took 50 years to do. And it’s one of those things like you start dying, once you take your first breath. It’s like they started overturning this thing. As soon as an actor they tried

Herman 4:27
in 92 to overturn it, which failed. And then it was like, Oh, you don’t even think about it. Like if another question is, it’s like, why are we really getting so many issues? You

Travis 4:37
know, and that’s the thing I don’t understand is that the Supreme Court is supposed to be the end all be all. I mean, I thought that it was final like if I’m so if a ruling was made in 1973, but by the highest court in the land, I would think that that would be final and it would be for everybody to stand on top of now. If there was a change in heart. It would come through new legislation with New with new parties involved, but not to go back to Roe versus Wade their original case, and then have, you know, different members, but of the same team, the highest court in the land come out and say, Nah, we see this differently. Now we’re gonna kick it a different way.

Herman 5:18
So I don’t know if it’s as crazy as it sounds. But in a nutshell, it’s like when you think about it, everything goes back to a document that was written 200, you know, the Bill of Rights, US Constitution. So for always looking back, right, then it doesn’t, it’s not, we’re gonna go, we’re gonna go back and look at other legislation. And, you know, it’s crazy, because the judges role like, you’re supposed to think of judges as nonpartisan, right? Like they’re supposed to interpret the Constitution and factor that in to the civil situations that are put before them. And currently, but in politics is playing out on the Supreme Court, man,

Tim 5:53
but that, but that’s the cover story, because that’s exactly what they’re quote unquote, doing. Right? Yeah, they’re looking at the Constitution. And they’re saying, I don’t see anywhere in here, where it says, abortion. Okay, it’s not mentioned in here, therefore, you’re not given this right.

Herman 6:13
And if that’s where we’re headed, so let’s just start with what Justice Alito said specifically, in how this kind of came to be with conservatives having majority control over the court. So this was his quote after it’s getting overturned. The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision, including one which defenders of Roe v. Casey now chiefly rely on the due process clause of the 14th amendment. So if at a base level the Constitution doesn’t reference something, it’s it now is going to be left up to the court to just not even say that it is right or wrong. They’re just gonna like, I’m gonna say stop working. But it kind of seems like they’re just not going to work. They’re like, hey, it’s not in here. Nothing to interpret here. canceled. And I’m like, how much shit is not mentioned in the US Constitution?

Tim 7:11
Everything. So

Travis 7:13
yeah, that’s a lot that’s happened since 1787.

Tim 7:18
It talks about guns, though.

Herman 7:19
It does talk about in the context of guns, it was different. They weren’t talking to I mean, a well regulated militia right now means every American gets a gun. That is those are way different things. So what Roe vs. Wade, what we saw, and what is playing out is one part of a much bigger strategy. So yes,

Travis 7:42
the to me, there’s a decentralization of the United States. And what it is, is the federal overarching parties, the federal government, the Supreme Court, etc, etc. But anybody in federal regime is basically saying, y’all deal with this and tell us what you find out,

Tim 8:05
move it back to the states and go back to the way things were.

Travis 8:09
So my question to you is, Tony, I mean, are we really a United States? Definitely not. I mean, physically, we’re, yeah, but

Tim 8:20
Alaska and Hawaii, they can go to, but we’re that wasn’t in the Constitution. We’re

Travis 8:25
definitely not. We’re definitely not a United States, per se, is because we are, we’re governing more as 50 Different republics. And we’re, we’re becoming much step closer to actually kind of mirror in Europe. If you really kind of think about it. So we are united by military, and we are united by travel, business, perhaps with our ability to now work for employers and be sitting anywhere, but that’s internationally. But we’re not really United States. And every time the government makes a decision like this, they are D centralizing their control. I

Tim 9:06
mean, we Yeah, we’re united by roads, but but we’re also united by citizenship. So as Europe Yeah, right. We all have the same passport. The blue passport says you’re from the greatest nation.

Travis 9:17
Yeah. Travel, our ability to move around the country.

Herman 9:21
Yeah. Yep. But and,

Travis 9:25
and our taxes. But

Herman 9:31
no. So while it seems like that the reality is we want to live in a cohesive nation. And so when you think back to this to the party dynamic, a lot of Republicans are like, oh, you know, it was Republicans to free the slaves, but I’m like this party switch. When Democrats started leaning one way and Republicans started leaning a different way. It was all about state states rights and decentralization. Conservatives wanted the freedom to have more state control over stuff, which is the direct line with Jim Crow laws and segregation and non integration. Democrats. We’re like, No, we need to be more federal to regulate that nationwide. Right. And so what we are living in and what we’re about to see over the next, I would say we’re gonna know everything we need to know, before the end of this year. And we’ll, we’ll get to that. But to your point, yes, we are decentralizing. But that does not play out in the interest of minorities or any minority group at all, it doesn’t

Travis 10:25
play out in the interest of anybody, except for the ability to lead for you to live in a place that best reflects your views and actions. But united, we are strong, we are mighty. And we are a force to be reckoned with. The minute we start to fragment ourselves, we’re vulnerable, we are weak. And we are in equal. And that’s a big, big problem. But that’s kind of where you’re going because people are getting pitted against each other. Like, take where we are middle of the map. Right? We’re located right here between Missouri slave state, Kansas, free territory. But in today’s translation, this is a Missouri anti abortion state, and Kansas, potentially not one. And so you’re pinning people against each other? Just just geographically. Yep. And it’s a it’s a big, big deal. When you really think about it, and you say, when you say that we are, we want to live in a cohesive union, you’re right. But we really want to impress our thoughts and beliefs upon everybody else. And we, wherever we sit, want to be able to have a say on somebody sitting in a totally different geographical area for them to get on board with what we think

Herman 11:46
Right? Which at some level might not sound fair, but if we are free to travel, then we I mean, we should have some cohesive freedoms when like, well, what can I do in this state that I can’t do and another one, or like, at least those should be norms, or right now, we’re about to completely change up the norms. That is another part of right, like, we talked about culture, and an episode I’m like, dog or culture is about to be, who knows. And that’s what we’re gonna touch on, unpack that. So I guess we’re gonna skip around a second. But we’ll come back to gay rights. But specifically like, to me, I personally feel like our laws kind of govern laws are kind of based to set rules that govern behavior, right? And behavior really defines like the cultural makeup because culture is made up of norms. And so if the norm in America was like, freedom, freedom to choose if you want to be a mother or not, well, now that is a freedom that no longer exists for millions and millions of women. Right, so the new norm is going to be what do I do when I’m pregnant? Or, you know, whatever the behavioral change is gonna be, but I’m like, from a legal protection standpoint, you’re no longer protected. Your freedom has limitations. And that’s exactly what America is supposed to fight against. Right.

Travis 13:06
So with gay rights on top of that, I think that’s what’s under siege next year.

Herman 13:14
Yeah. So let’s so right after Roe v. Wade, Clarence Thomas comes out and basically

Travis 13:20
yeah, no, he’s clean.

Herman 13:24
I look, first of all know what the hell is he like the most hated black?

Tim 13:30
Like delegation trade to him.

Herman 13:32
He was rel so after they overturn Roe v. Wade, I don’t know if it was a day later, two days later, he’s already out there talking about tweet initiate rulings establishing gay rights, contraceptives, rights should be reconsidered. They should be reconsidered because they’re not in the constitution. So there’s three specific ones, Griswold versus Connecticut. And basically, that’s around married couples rights within contraception for its first Texas, sexual privacy, which does affect more than just, you know, the gay community that would be like everybody, you’re talking about sexual privacy. And then Obergefell versus Hodges, which is the same sex marriage clause like same sex marriage is not in the Constitution if you want to look at it of the rights part of like, well, do you have the right to marry well, like depending on this current courts way that they look at the Constitution and what liberties people have I think you can say no, and it’s crazy because the abstract of Roe versus Wade when you’re like, I can’t believe they overturned or when they when it leaked, right? Yeah. Well, now it’s like, well, this the leak or is this a dog whistle is this telling people so?

Travis 14:43
Abortion clearly wasn’t thought of in biblical terms or in our Constitution. But same sex marriages or same sex unions are same six acts are not a product of the Constitution, but they’re a product of the Bible.

Herman 14:59
Talking about Separation of Church and State because that’s about it.

Travis 15:03
That is that’s exactly where I’m going. Oh, that is, yeah, separation of church and state. Right. So states are allowing the Bible to govern their decisions on certain asset aspects. Which is contradictory to America’s claim of a free it’s not because land of the free you, you’re free. That’s

Tim 15:25
what that’s what they exactly that’s what it was for the separation of church and state was solely for the state not to run the church but the church to run the state. Yeah, yeah. That’s what they’re saying

Herman 15:38
to practice your religion or, you know, whatever that is like, America grants you the freedom to those things.

Tim 15:44
No, no, no, no, no, the Republicans are saying that that clause means the state, the church is supposed to impact the state. So then

Travis 15:54
I would say that there’s truly no freedom of religion.

Tim 15:57
No, Not. Not. If it’s not Christianity, well, then this

Travis 16:01
is not the land of the free. No, it’s not. I mean, I know this. But let’s

Tim 16:07
I mean, thank you for showing your work.

Travis 16:10
But it’s, that’s exactly like, this is, this is a step back and everything that its counterpart, it’s counterintuitive to the arguments that they provide for other things.

Tim 16:21
Like, it doesn’t make any sense. I mean, okay, I get it, signed the Constitution. So now we have the opportunity to undo it, I get it. But like as a human being, why, why? Because people died, and lived and worked, and bled for to do the things that you are now, undoing with all your mind. So I think there’s no respect. Now, no respect, there’s no togetherness. It’s a complete garbage strategy that is so brilliant, I blows my mind. It leads continued.

Travis 16:58
I go back, I go back to conversation that we had long ago about conspiracy theories. And so we talked about religion being the greatest conspiracy theory. So we’re being ran by conspiracy theory.

Herman 17:16
Well, so it’s hard. So conspiracy theory, for the most part, they’re not well vetted out. But in this case, if you really look at kind of what’s happened, if you really look at this long term, you know, people come and go out of government, but I’m like this torch has continued in the torch was a group of people always wanting to overturn Roe, as soon as it was put into law that has never failed,

Travis 17:37
may get cancelled. But the Bible on these might vet that shit out. I never been nowhere with rain for days and 40 nights, and I wasn’t listed lower was in Seattle.

Herman 17:50
I just I just, I think that the way that this is playing out, is playing out strategically, exactly what this group of people has been working on, right? Like, let’s it’s not about let’s get more votes, it’s about let’s control the votes to count. Let’s control a court that that’s going to make determinations. And if you control those from a partisan way, then you get to stall on America that has been progressing for years. So I was thinking about this randomly yesterday. And I was like, what America looked like 100 years ago,

Tim 18:20
who bet to find out?

Herman 18:22
I mean, kind of right. Like what the roaring 20s. Right, like, there was a lot of great things, but there was also

Travis 18:27
a bunch of smoke coming from Tulsa. Right? You’re talking about protestations,

Herman 18:32
right, like, but we were still progressing from there to well, to where we got to 2022. So like 100 years of technological progress of rights, and being granted, all these other things have advanced, I’m like, well, at some point, they’re like, hold up. Let’s take a step back. And let’s try to GROW AMERICA in a different way. And I’m like, I feel like that’s what we’re about to experience over this next 100 years. And I say that based off of literally, this room,

Tim 19:02
so we think America, I think we all think America is growing, right? We’ve been evolving and developing and innovating, right, like, like we were on a good trajectory, or it’s framed, right? Well, you would think so. Right? But there’s a there’s this, a sect of the people who are a lot of them are in power who disagree. They disagree that the world is becoming a better place. And so they want to change it and they want it to go back to the way it was to when they were in power.

Herman 19:38
And by they by they honestly this is going to I hate to it is who was they they would be white people, men, white men, I would just say, white people that have felt that their size and power in America has been diminished throughout this past 100 years. So while they granted a lot of freedoms and things got past that moved us forward that created innovation, you’re talking about technological innovations, healthcare innovations, people living better, right, like longer, living longer, healthier. We, you know, like all this shit that we’ve gone to, but that’s like, hold on. But now, so I actually pulled out the statistics on just like the white population, because I’m like, when you listen to stuff, it just there’s a lot of fear. And I’m like, Oh, well, looking back, I’m like, Dude, the white population from 1790, through 1990 has always been above 80%. To New Year’s, always over 80%, which is a lot of control. Fast forward to literally today, like so the first kind of major decline happened in 2000, where went down about 75. And today they’re sitting at 61, or minority groups are making up I think 57. So like, there’s a percentage of something in there that’s like missing, but I’m like duck. That is, if I was white and wanted to be in a house

Tim 20:59
65. So lost 15% in 10 years. Yeah. Yeah, it’d

Herman 21:06
be well, closer to 20. Right? Like it start? Yeah, from over at 75. Now 61. So it only makes sense that you would, that at least certain parts of we even call it far right? Or conservative think tanks are like, hey, if the numbers which are going to write like that, that’s a trajectory, like those things happen over time, there’s nothing that can happen that all of a sudden is gonna grow 20% Next year, or the next five years or the next decade, right. However, the power that we need to retain, this is kind of the long term way to build out that power structure and control. So

Tim 21:41
and it’s got to be to where it’s set up so that a minority can control the majority, like you don’t need strengthen numbers,

Herman 21:49
or you don’t and when you look at the makeup of Americans, like are Americans congressional map 50 states, right. Two senators, and each state seems like equal power. But

Tim 22:00
who is this government? One on one, please? Don’t I don’t know how it works. So

Herman 22:05
like the Senate gets two reps per state. Yeah. Okay. One public and one Democrat. And then the house is made up? Is

Tim 22:11
it really have to be one Republican and one Democrat? Yeah. I don’t know if it has to be. What about the Libertarians and all the other independent? I

Herman 22:19
think they can you don’t have to have one damn and one. Like, no, sir. Somebody

Travis 22:23
who can run opposed to that, but alternatively, when?

Tim 22:26
Right, so Well, you have to have each or to have one? I think you

Herman 22:31
can, oh, we need to look that up real quick. Do you wanna just look that up real quick, and I’m gonna go back to the to the since I’m trying to learn so 50 states right now, only 18 states are controlled by Democratic legislatures, which means 38 states are controlled by Republican legislatures. Most of the cities are Democrat. And so yeah, yeah. And so we’re population matters is what the house right, like the House of Representatives is done by population. Gotcha. Where that falls short is when it comes to gerrymandering, which we’ll talk about, but right now, it’s like if you’ve returned, more federal rights to the states, that is going to win out in conservative led legislatures. Over 50%, you know, like, year after year, year after year, and you’re gonna be able to use a minority population to control the majority of what people want most people like, it’s not like people are like, hey, we want women out here having abortions all the time. That’s not even a thing, right? Like, that’s no, but if you’re like, hey, at least we have the power to say that this can’t happen in our state, right? And then you amplify that, and I’m like, Oh,

Tim 23:45
so now you control the majority of so now you control your state. And you control the majority of the states that gives you local and federal power in perpetuity.

Herman 23:58
And that’s like, you don’t even need the federal power if the federal power says we don’t look at stuff y’all handle it, but

Tim 24:03
they do on an international level, though. Yeah. And I this is where I was gonna go earlier, like, you know, as how we look to other countries, and he and T was saying we look, we look bad, right? We look very vulnerable when we start booming become 50 independent states, instead of 50. United States now we look like, you know, people can start picking us off right, one by one. So we look horribly International, but if you can still control the federal government and where money goes and how we expand our national and how we you know, f all y’all and we’re out of you know, NATO or whatever. Now we look hella crazy, but we but they still have they still have control. Yeah, and

Travis 24:47
that theory is not really an epiphany. It came from Texas, you know, Texas, I think is talked Molly about succeeding from the union and they make a lot of different legislative acts and common comments and actions that are very independent from everybody else, as if they think they can do things differently or better, or,

Tim 25:07
and they will say and and Republicans will say the same thing about California.

Herman 25:12
Yeah, except for here’s the thing with the blue, California, New York states is that they’re making big money trading on the global markets, Texas, their big thing is legitimately oil and population,

Tim 25:22
right? And think about the International. Right, like a non white, Texas oil, whatever.

Herman 25:31
Actually, Texas is probably why so many things happen in Texas is because they’ve been feeling this pressure or I guess the race based numbers, right? Like they are, I mean, you would say frontlines, and they’re like, because I’m like here, you know, in the Midwest, and like, well, most of my spaces I go to I am the only black person, right? I don’t even see that many Hispanic people. You’re going to Texas, I’m like, Hey, it is definitely it looks like a melting pot. And I’m like, Well, if they can rule their state with partisan, predominantly white legislation.

Tim 26:01
So the color thing though, right, so so it kind of bugged me when you said that earlier about? I mean, it’s it’s probably a white, it’s probably white, right, like the white people were trying to take over the world basically. Not America. That’s that’s the world. Right? It is. I mean, we know that is the show that yeah, it plays on. Yeah. But why people? But then I think about when I think about, you know, like, like, it’s white. It’s mainly white men. Palin male. But there’s a lot of paleo male that don’t think like that. Oh, 100%. And it’s like, what’s the difference? Right, how? What’s, what’s the difference? Why can and I know, we’re, we, we also have infighting?

Herman 26:51
Oh, yeah. What? No, individual group is whatever. But if an individual like, I mean, white men have been controlling America since its foundation, the world and like, the world, the world, the world, right, like, so when you kind of think about those numbers. I’m like, Yeah, I mean, even if it was 5050, with white men are like, no, we want a better Union, we want white people to do well, yeah, well, there are some white men that look at that equality as a direct threat, like us versus them plays out. But also, I’m gonna have to give up something for somebody else to have their rights because rights go two ways, right? Yeah,

Travis 27:25
I was gonna say it’s very simple. It’s wealth and resources. Yeah. And the ability of the protection of those two streams are something that people will fight for. And once you get to a certain point of accumulation, and you get to a certain point of comfort, you don’t want that compromised,

Herman 27:44
a certain point of accumulation. I’m sorry, bro, that yes, so much. As soon as

Tim 27:49
you hit that you can just sit back and coast on and it’s almost like, interest, you

Herman 27:53
built your wealth. I’m keeping this and like, once you have enough money, your money is going to make a gazillion more dollars over time. Right. But I’m like, it’s interesting, because that is literally what this strategy is. And like, look, the money can fluctuate, or the people or the race can fluctuate. But as long as we can control our power, that be, we’re still going to remain in control of this nation.

Travis 28:14
Well, yeah, let’s take this original conversation about Roe versus Wade and talk about the male side of it, which is the ability to dictate, and that is something that’s a masculine trait in a lot of cases, right? So when you have wealth and resources, you feel like you can dictate what’s going to happen. You know, I think it was said best, I think Little Kim actually said it, but first you get the money, then you get the rest of life. Money Power should have eaten, right? And you sleep at night. So, okay, so then, I mean, it’s the ability to dictate and tell people how things are going to be done, hold things over people’s head, control the game of life, like that’s what it really comes down to. And anytime you back up, you’re back back from that, you know, you just don’t feel good about it. And that’s very, that’s where we’re at. And that’s where you see Russia doing what they’re doing. That’s where you see the things happening organically within the US what we’re doing, you know, it’s a lot of the same stuff. It just different,

Herman 29:22
bro. So I just want to jump into this last piece of legislation. So Roe v. Wade, overturned, dunzo, Clarence Thomas mentioning gay rights being threatened. You know, it came out. That happens October November. We’ll see if that’s done. So if it is Jesus Christ help the world. And then lastly, is this Harper versus more Harper versus more? Do this is the legislation that would truly move things back to the States and to me that is the final straw in this situation where we think that we have a vote that matters or a voice that matters so that’ll be heard, I think, October November. And essentially what that is, is basically returning election results back to basically gerrymandered states, it would allow states to gerrymander. And when we look at the 38 states that are Republican led, they can create their own congressional maps, diminishing minority votes every step of the way.

Travis 30:18
So there’s a lot of people out there who would ask you to break down gerrymandering.

Herman 30:23
So essentially, Jeremy, oh, no, the best way to describe it, but let’s just say most people that vote a certain way, live close to one another. But there’s people that vote a different way that are also in this community. So you just break out a district so that basically, you could make a fraction, you can make minority voices now a fraction of a bigger district.

Travis 30:44
That’s actually happened here locally. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the, it’s essentially like he said, the ability to manipulate borders and boundaries. Yeah. And so that happened here locally in the Kansas City area. For those of you who are not super familiar with Kansas City, since this is a global podcast. Kansas City has Missouri and Kansas and Kansas, Missouri side is much larger, the Kansas side is a fraction of the Missouri side, but over and Wyandotte County, which is in Kansas City, Kansas, they broke up and redistrict some things and repurpose some things, for voting for voting reasons that will have great implications and future ballots and results. Cool. So I mean, that’s that stuff is going like I think that we’re, I won’t say we because I’m trying not to choose sides, even though y’all know, I’m on the blue side. But it’s death by 1000. paper cuts. Yes. And it’s just getting sliced and diced from every different direction. And, you know, it just seems as if the Democratic Party is sitting there with their hands, sitting on our hands and is not doing anything.

Herman 31:58
Well, I think that for Democrats, it just doesn’t seem real, like you cast your vote for what’s going to make your for the person that you think is going to make your world okay. Right. And to a certain extent, like a lot of Democrats look like me sound like me care about social issues, health care, whatever it is, I’m like, okay, great. But on the other side, right, like, we also have a lot of we live amongst a more dynamic population here in the city. But when you look at like rural Missouri, rural Arkansas, rural, any state in America, Dude, that looks so different. And they are following so many different stories, whether it’s like all the problems you see or happened in the big city, because they’re so diverse. When you look at those communities, they’re not diverse. And they have viewpoints that are viewpoints based around somebody that wouldn’t look, you know, that look at diversity is something that’s harmful to America, and it’s been harmful to America. And then they control the makeup of most states. And it’s like, hey, just like how guns are, you know, should probably be watched at a greater level in cities because of people living close proximity, rural community, just like no guns are falling behind. So like, as,

Travis 33:01
as we proceed throughout this topic, I think about you know, how today, we have worked our way to this point. And we have on this illustrious podcast covered so many different topics, which are the ground ground work for today. And I think about my own prophecy and how I was correct in some different ways. But President doesn’t matter. The President is

Tim 33:29
said this 100 times we have

Travis 33:31
said it so many times on this. The President does not matter. The President is probably will trump was the greatest social media influencer ever to live. Yeah, the president currently is not a social media influencer, currently has little to no impact on Facebook on what goes on. He like read off a teleprompter other day and read like the lessons that was supposed to be like, you know, insistence or so now back to Yeah, now back to Yeah, it was something like that. But it’s funny, but that’s probably one of the biggest things that’s happening right now is where things truly matter. And where our focus should be, is what’s going on and state and local, primarily your state. Yes. And I think that that is something that Americans don’t truly

Herman 34:22
catch. Well, so that’s like so that’s this conversation is like, how did we get here? Our legislators, they’ve been so focused on these hyper like, like very laser focused on like, these micro issues. And then you kind of forget about the broader right, like, if one major piece of legislation gets overturned what that means, but I feel like Democrats have been out here like, it’ll never happen. It’s not gonna happen. Yeah, you see a look and now it’s too late. Because the people, the people that are going to make change, they’re already there. The Supreme Court already is made up how it’s made up, right, like it’s a conservative majority court. And we’re about To see what happens with gay rights, we’re going to see if this legislation gets overturned. But my thing is like how these three things play out. And I’m like, so one of the things I already said like laws drive culture, but I was thinking about so Okay, roe overturned, what’s that mean for women? So I pulled up three statistics that I think are profound, which is just pregnancies, right? So I’m like, now we’re going to force women to have pregnancies. But these are the numbers, regardless of Roe versus Wade, there’s about 3.6 million pregnancies per seat per year, only 3.6 million births. So you’re cutting out 300,000 that just are no longer pregnant, who knows if it’s an ectopic, pregnant, whatever that reason, and the look at the abortion numbers at 600,000. So there’s a huge gap of millions of kids that aren’t born. But what does this mean for women, either one, we’re going to have millions of more women that are going to take a step back, possibly career wise, or, you know, like, leave the workforce or you know, just like be too busy raising children. And then is this other percentage depending on how the row thing if you’re criminalized, because what happened to these other babies, if they’re given up for adoption, who’s paying for that, or like, that’s just a big number, it’s a big gap. And then the gerrymandering, if all of a sudden gerrymandering at the state level that means 38 states, the majority of minority voices are not, their votes just aren’t going to count they’re going to be whittled down to a small percentage that did not put you in a winning position. And then when it comes to the gay rights thing that plays out and how it could affect all marriage or just any union like how was that not going to be a protected thing? I’m like, obviously, I feel safe and I’m gonna interracial marriage because Clarence Thomas is in one too.

Travis 36:36
Yeah. I was really about to say, I find it curious that he didn’t go against Loving versus Virginia. He’s like, Whoa, that’s a little too far.

Herman 36:48
Right. And I’m like it just to me, those are I mean, these are major cultural shifts that we’re going backwards on

Travis 36:56
that Lord knows the only black woman who probably be attracted to him is Candace Owens. Well

Herman 37:05
he has no interest in her bro.

Travis 37:12
You’re black. The deception

Herman 37:18
do this chick blue wave? So how are y’all Amen So how are y’all feeling? Does this make sense? Yeah. Is this going down the pathway it’s going down? It

Travis 37:29
makes sense why some bullshit

Tim 37:31
just I’m just I’m just sad man. I’m just I’m just super sad because we’re losing like the battle of good versus evil. Evil is winning and it’s playing out like every Armageddon movie that I watch because we are we know that the evil is going away man. So

Travis 37:49
it’s it’s really interesting man.

Tim 37:51
There’s like a little piece of me is waiting for happy ending though.

Herman 37:56
I think that there can be a happy ending I think that it’s going to take time I think last

Tim 38:01
50 years bro

Herman 38:03
Hey man. Hey look, man, but

Tim 38:05
we’re not gonna see the happy ending we we might we’ll see the destruction

Travis 38:10
to count to show the difference and ideology I came across this post from somebody who I worked with in a previous life and they said what the USA so divided I’m just glad to be on the side that believes in God has the most guns and knows which restroom to use. Like that is they look cleat different some

Herman 38:34
simple messaging

Travis 38:35

Tim 38:36
Yeah, that’s a great post. It just alright. Y’all know where I stand? Yep.

Herman 38:42
Hey, bud. It’s so funny. Because if you were to explain to that person, well, why do you lean blue? There’s,

Tim 38:47
there’s no, there’s no. And then here’s Herman’s Head. There’s no explaining bro. You cannot explain anything that I personally change their mind. I know. There’s no logic, there’s no facts. There’s no picture. There’s no video, no story, you can tell

Herman 39:03
it look. And now what they get is the law on their side to back up that claim of how things should be. And so it’s like you can legally say something like that. And that’s the America that you want to create that is being created. And I just find it interesting that technology advances so fast. But our laws never keep up with the advancement of technology or how to regulate all the shit that goes on in the digital spaces where the majority of people are making their money. We’re literally only litigating past shit that has to do with freedoms, rights liberties, what you can or cannot do as an individual. It is so crazy man. And I’m like, but I’m like, maybe that’s the place where we’re blue candidates are dropping the ball. Right? Like we cannot go forward. Like let’s just can we say that we’re in a state of decline when it comes to the social makeup of America?

Travis 39:53
Yes. Yeah.

Herman 39:56
So maybe we actually need to maybe not look at progress and look at the face Ending rebuilding America from a man we need better policy? Because I mean,

Travis 40:05
that’s what the red is doing.

Herman 40:09
I know. And I’m like, I feel like the blue has been focused on just others

Travis 40:14
not sure. My vice president hasn’t spoken. And my son and my son the other day, my president is reading off a teleprompter. I don’t even know when to stop. He’s like,

Tim 40:26
Well, we already talked about it doesn’t matter who’s at the top he’s like, it doesn’t matter hold for

Travis 40:31
applause oh, let’s then let’s talk about my governor’s out there like this one Missouri’s in India? Well,

Herman 40:42
I don’t think he’s doing much most other governors but you look how what governors like the impact that they make on your state should

Travis 40:48
last governor retired people tied women up in and raped him. Oh, shit, Eric Greitens Yeah, he’s under

Herman 40:56
Yeah, he’s running again. Did you see as his ad was out there talking?

Travis 41:00
Admins resilient any rain again?

Tim 41:02
I thought it was just supporting somebody. Nah, he’s

Travis 41:04
out there again out here. Like his commercial with the trout on impending.

Herman 41:10
That’s bold, right? It is. Like if you’re black, you gotta be perfect to actually that’s not true. Because I feel like the dude the black dude in Florida that was running for governor like just got indicted on a whole bunch of shit.

Travis 41:23
Marry Yeah, yeah, man. Like that was sad. marionberry got caught and

Tim 41:28
bro. was like the fam you hopeful bro? Like, like, clean cut, bro. Bro, when that scandal came out, oh my God, it was a heartbreaker.

Herman 41:39
It’s just crazy. Because politics on both sides is trash. As far as like kind of what you have to do decisions you have to make whether you’re going to take money from some business that’s in some obscure thing that wants you to

Tim 41:49
pay your bills. So you take 10 grand, and now all of a sudden you use the biggest scandal in America. I mean,

Travis 41:56
politics is a dirty, thankless job, and the only way they can make it is by taking bribes. And it’s funny

Herman 42:03
because one of the things that Trump said that I completely agree with it was getting money out of politics. Of course, that is one position that that he did not move on. But I’m like, yeah, that that right there businesses how much they can donate what how you support how you support the shadow. campaign money?

Tim 42:22
I mean, a look, you can donate?

Travis 42:25
No, I mean, like if you’re a politician?

Herman 42:28
Well, I think that there are limits on how much you can except for that’s when they came up with like the PACs and how much you could

Tim 42:32
say it’s like, $100, right?

Herman 42:36
You can send millions through a political action committee. Right, you know.

Tim 42:41
So evil is winning. I’m not liking the way this plan of evil is playing out? Is it does it get worse?

Herman 43:00
So I think,

Tim 43:03
is there anything, it’s gonna get worse, break my heart?

Herman 43:07
I look worse before it gets better. Every society goes through shifts. And this is just one that, you know, this is a moment in time, and 50 years and the grand scheme of things is nothing. I mean, it’s something for us because we’re about to live through what could be, I think, a very tumultuous moment in time. And it’s going to take possibly the rest of our lives to get to a better place. But maybe that’s not the case. Like nobody can predict the future. This

Tim 43:32
is like step two, Doug, this is we’re just now 50 years back, what’s next, that’s going to be another 20 years. And then they get they did another 30 this slide the backside hasn’t had just started back

Herman 43:47
slide has just started but you have to once we can see the outcomes of the backslide. Because I’m like, you’re already gonna have to admit, here’s the thing. This is why I brought up women and that like 3 million birth gap between pregnancies. And so what is going to happen with those 3 million women we don’t know. So like, even when overturning Roe vs. Wade, which we’ll talk about on the next episode, just when it comes to women, that’s going to have to be figured out that’s going to have been figured out every month in every state on what is to be protected or not. Because there are 1000s of cases that a woman can lose a baby but is she a criminal or not? Right? So I’m like, that will kind of how that plays out. We’ll also curb how other things play out because like, look, people are rising up because they have no voice. And right now America is the melting pot of diversity. The

Travis 44:35
biggest problem I see and the biggest thing that concerns me is the players in the game. Right? So politics is a game played by those who are inclined to get into the such arena, though as we raise a more liberal society because young people seem to be facile but they’re not interested in playing the political game and political Politics generally is something that trickles down. Like if there’s anything I’ve learned from Ozark, but it’s like now it was by the from billions. So like, people who are playing the game politically, people who want political office, people who want to stand in front of America are not generally the people who are an uproar about what’s happening, the people who are an uproar about what’s happening, are living their lives, not liking what’s happening, but not taking a stance of playing the political game. So if we won’t get ourselves into the political game, to make a stance or grab traction that we can believe in, how do we change? How do we get to a point where there’s opposition, and we can get a tidal wave, like the only thing, not the only thing, but the main thing that was good about 2008 Was that when Barack Obama comes in, it’s like, Oh, my God, there’s somebody who might endear what’s going on with not only younger people, black people, people of color, and he created this monster mental wave. So now fast forward freeze frame, 12 years later, 13 years later, I guess 14 Should is 2020 22, we got a we had a 74 year old candidate against a 71 year old candidate. And we got Mitch McConnell’s and motherfuckers like that, here making decisions. Then you go to Syria Supreme Court, I got old as Uncle Ben looking Clarence Thomas. Actually, he looked like dude from Django. So he’s out here, you know, making decisions and calling other things that are so far from what’s happening. Now, because we’re raising a fluid society, there’s a lot of people who are younger, who are very fluid, right? They don’t know if they’re gay, they don’t know if they’re straight. They’re figuring all that out. And these things are going to be under siege, their rights are going to be under siege. So when you think about if I’m fluid, and I’m trying to figure out which way I want to swing from the plate,

Herman 47:11
like, let me swing the side, that’s not illegal to correct that it’s less

Travis 47:15
risky. But then you talk about gay being under under siege, they’re gay rights being under siege there. And we’re using the religion to govern society, man, it just makes everything very convoluted. But I started my whole point by saying, the people who are in the game are the same type of people. And that’s a problem.

Tim 47:36
Okay, don’t say anything, because I have two things to say. And I will forget about it. Let’s go to the big one. All right. So she brought up gay rights, and in the fact that they’re under siege, right? or about to be they’ve done them in so many ways. Yeah, they’ve been

Herman 47:57
they’ve been under safe but now it seems way more real.

Tim 47:59
And, and there’s been a lot of protesting and a lot of movement has made right has been made with you know, some states now, you know, you people can get married at the same sex like great. Yeah, been making progress, right. Okay. So at at the same time in society, this fluid thing has been happening, more and more kids, people, adults, whatever had been changing their minds making different decisions coming out, etc, etc. Like, it’s been like a tidal wave, would you would you say Correct? Yeah. Okay. So, based on what you said earlier about culture, culture breeds culture. Technically, over the last 50 100 years or whatever, we have been progressing to a more fluid accepting six society and thus the legislation has been changed and adapted creating this culture that culture has now created more of it right now that is starting to change. So legislation now says this is unacceptable as a culture therefore, less people will go down that road and pretty soon we’ll be back to where no one came out of the closet. No one was changing their gender no one was raising their hand and saying I’m different. I feel different. That’s where we’re going we’re undoing we’re undoing all that because one it’s a cause and effect See, I think we’re getting rid of the cause

Travis 49:35
I think that we just came off Pride Month them thing going to where

Tim 49:41
they eventually will no, they will there will not be more of them to come after

Travis 49:46
now because they fighting with something way deeper. Like this is not this isn’t a motion

Tim 49:50
this is a bro I was just on the plaza picked up some Chinese food and saw 40 people marching down the street. So in 100 degree weather there. Do you think anybody paid any attention to them? No. Other than like, Damn is hot. They are really passionate about their cause. It was so minuscule bro. Yeah, it was it was not a good it was not a good protest Medicare’s about anything like that it’s not a good protest. My point is that that support is going to wane. When we start losing right? We were winning, right? We were winning this battle. Good was winning. Evil is fucking kicking our ass, no motivation. Inspiration is going to go it’s going to leave because you’re going to see that we’re going to see that we we lost. And there’s nothing we can do to change it because we’re not in power locally, we’re not in power federally, we don’t have the money, or the resources or the support are the smarts to Wade. All of our culture of progression and fluidness and inclusion, diversity, equity inclusion is going to go away. No new new segment Tim’s predictions.

Herman 51:11
I mean, I don’t think so. Let that. Go ahead.

Travis 51:14
I don’t think so. And the only reason why I really believe that is because when he talks about a fight, and getting energy for a fight, there has to be something that you’re passionate about. And I believe that, yes, there could be attack on legislation. But I do believe that the progression of the LGBTQ community has a passion behind it, that that was a fight that would not go quietly, hell take away their rights, that might be our next civil war. But I think that, that they will meet because you’re talking about matters of love. It’s not about science, it’s love, and people will fight for things that they love. And I think that that energy would be significant. And I think that it would be challenged, I think you’re I think you’re right to believe that it would be challenging to be under assault, but I do believe that it would be, it would be something that would be so passionate that they would not only have if they will not have the energy of themselves.

Tim 52:20
If the government can not be on their side, there will not be on their side, that battle will be lost that battle will and all of their allies will disappear. So the Allies might say this is allies, because because we’re not in it for for love. So we’re here for equality, right? And because it affects us and our inequalities in and other places. But once they lost that battle, like alright, we fought with you, but you fucking got obliterated, we gotta go focus on this over here. So let’s just gonna go with it. And one after the other. Right? Every battle immigration, y’all niggas gonna lose, right? The whole then as we’re gonna be the last one standing and then we’re gonna get obliterated to and then we’ll be in Mexico.

Herman 53:10
So I love the way that she was brought up that aspect of love. But I’m like the the sad thing to me is that it’s already been lost from a why that love matters place because the legislative the mechanisms are in place to curb that because guess what people love more than another person’s ability to love who they want. Apparently, in this country, it is putting legislations forward to make sure that they can control that. And that’s why I’m like these, this the rest of this year is so important if they overturn those, those Privacy Act.

Travis 53:46
Yeah, that’s, that’s the love of the players of the game, not the love of the people.

Herman 53:50
But if they overturn those three cases, the Grizz Well, if that they didn’t think they were going to overturn Roe versus Wade, and they did it. Yeah. Why would we think that they wouldn’t overturn that thing, putting gay rights into a complete free for all for the majority of states to say we don’t recognize your marriage here. They used to say we had to but now we don’t.

Tim 54:11
Like I haven’t said this laws control behavior guide behavior and norms. The culture. Yeah, those norms create the culture, bro, this culture is going to go away. People are going to go back into the closet, bro. I’m telling you, because it’s not going to be a free society folks

Herman 54:30
aren’t going to vote if they overturn Harper versus more because it’s like they’ve been gerrymandered. Even if 100% of black people came out to vote, that’s how this is going to play out. And so 100% of black people vote in a certain area, that shit is still not going to put you past the threshold.

Tim 54:44
So then what ammunition do we have?

Travis 54:46
I actually think the assault of the assault of those rights if there is any silver lining out of it will will start to breed political campaigns for those who want to protect those rights. And I think that that would be, that would be a welcome because then you like just recently, like, you know, decision Roe versus Wade happens. Immediately I see political ads for people saying that they’re gonna fight for female rights, you know, like people are automatically using that as a leverage point. Now we all know, once they get in office, they’re not going to do anything that they promised, like, so I’m not even, I’m not even truly entertaining. So

Tim 55:26
why are we talking about this then?

Travis 55:28
But what I would say is, is that if it’s for the LGBT community, for rights of humankind, when it comes to love and your ability to I think that that would probably get some energy, these candidates can win without the support of that community. It’s really just, it’s too populous of a community.

Tim 55:48
But the gerrymandering that starts Yeah, so

Herman 55:50
that sounds like even if you get the right piano, but that

Travis 55:52
is half power. That’s a peanut butter spread. You know, that’s not that is not limited to urban areas. That is, that is all over.

Herman 56:03
Wait, what do you mean? Well, gerrymandering

Travis 56:04
would be like breaking down communities. Yeah.

Tim 56:07
The LGBT community browser and rendering

Travis 56:11
now like I’m saying, It’s peanut butter spread. They’re everywhere. They’re rural. They’re urban, sir. Everywhere. So

Tim 56:17
black people know Pepperdine. We’re Pepperdine. Everywhere as well.

Travis 56:22
We’re not there. That we’re not. We’re in the cities. And you were there some pepper spray.

Tim 56:29
We literally are black in the moment. Next Next topic. Go.

Herman 56:33
No man.

Travis 56:34
That’s still city, Suburban. That’s still the store urban. It’s not urban urban. Like it ain’t downtown. It’s but we’re still in cities. Like when you start talking about those districts, when you look at a political

Tim 56:45
literally fighting about the diversity geographically of how gay people are, are peppered. We

Travis 56:51
don’t have stuff like Biden, if you would agree.

Tim 56:56
I’m saying no, no, quickly, I’m saying you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

Herman 57:01
Oh, T Mondego. Like that say something? You right? Look, I get what you’re trying to say. I just think that we’ve crossed the point to where so like, protests, like I’ve thought about this, like all of the people that came out to protest after row got upset. Go ahead. So

Tim 57:19
weird, dynamic shifts, when Tebow became directly across from me, you became the host?

Travis 57:33
Oh, a sudden where?

Herman 57:35
I know, right? Take it another take. Take it up. Got it. Got it, man. No, it’s all good, man. So I was just saying like protests, protests are not going to bring row back. And even if you just look at it from that one standpoint, or if, if we see gay rights get overturned, protests aren’t going to bring them back. So that’s why I was like, It’s gonna take time because whatever happens, whatever the outcomes, so much important legislation is the rest of this year. That is going to dictate where the fight needs to be. Right. And so

Tim 58:15
while you’re, which is,

Herman 58:17
well, I think that that’s being more intentional, like a protest is fought do a protest solely for awareness, and it doesn’t need to be much more than that. But demand more from your representatives. That’s all you can do.

Tim 58:30
Okay, though. No, I knew we were gonna go here. Okay. Excuse me. That is the same shit as been spewed over the last 20 years and nothing has changed. So we need a better strategy.

Travis 58:43
Yeah, demanding more from consultative.

Tim 58:46
What does that mean? That means write a letter tweet. Now I get these emails every day. And we need your help demanding

Herman 58:52
more actually, it would be the cohesiveness behind getting away from single issues and focusing on a broader strategy for building an America that works better for most of the country. Because what we’re getting back, our ROI is trash. The ROI on on what the Supreme Court is doing is trash, right? Like, oh, cool, new justices Trump got to pick some of them, we got to pick some. But in the end, what McConnell did was you blocked a candidate putting Trump over the threshold. And now you get to dictate the future of America by going backwards. So if Democrats would have had a bigger strategy, or the backbone at the time to for a bump, say no Merrick Garland is going to be able to see and we don’t, and we can’t, but that’s my point isn’t like but we’re still focused on these micro issues. Like we’re gonna look at the gay rights that may be overturned as individual issues, but I’m like, this episode is that broader strategy. It was a 50 year strategy to put people in places to make sure that these 38 states remaining in conservative control to ensure that Whatever happens at the federal level, the state houses which are majority Conservative, versus the Senate, which both of them have to work together to pass legislation. And that’s not what we’re about to see, we’re about to see bills that just are taking us backwards for a while, we’re going to have to live with it for a moment in time. But once those hours, and look, it might not be 100 years, but as these things come out in society goes a certain direction. Even conservatives might not, might not like how that plays out, or looks, but they don’t know. They just have to, like everything that it’s about is like this theorized view of what the world would be, man, if everybody in America were conservative, everything would be better, it won’t. Right. And once you recognize that, that not having gay marriage doesn’t make your life better, that women not having access to health care does not make your life better. And you might be tired of hearing black people talk about stuff, well, you’re not gonna hear less black people talk about stuff, you know, I’m saying and eventually that might have its impact. So like, I don’t know how long it’s gonna take. But I’m like, That is kind of like the ebb and flow of the I mean, we’re still going to be a nation America is not going to break apart. I don’t see that happening. But I do see us losing or before we start growing,

Travis 1:01:11
we’re no longer indivisible though. And I think that the Supreme Court, I mean, why you were expressing yourself eloquently. I was thinking to myself, that Supreme Court, the six people who voted against Roe versus Wade, are just extremely cowardice. And I think that they are failing to take a hold of a national issue and allowing us to come to 50 different conclusions on the issue. And I think that that’s cowardice, that

Tim 1:01:36
is because they’re listening to a higher power, bro,

Herman 1:01:39
which is crazy, because that same higher power played out the first time, but

Tim 1:01:45
the above and master

Herman 1:01:48
look, but here’s the thing that roe passed under a conservative majority court, fast forward 50 years, the same conservative majority court feels completely different about their place in American law.

Travis 1:02:00
That’s because the just like the party shifts, right. Like, the dynamics of it, the ideology of it shifts dramatically. And I mean, that just happens over time. And it’s in a really weird place right now, where it’s literally just thinking, they’re just looking at the world saying it’s been too liberal, let’s rein it back in. People think people are out here thinking too much for themselves and doing too much and customizing their American experience.

Herman 1:02:28
It makes more sense that episode, which was crazy when we did it, but I’m like, it just makes more sense. Now, damn all this customization. That’s basically what they’re saying. Yeah. And that’s kind of the That’s America, right? Like, you get to make it how you want it to look for a while until you can vote people in unless you legislate laws and mechanisms that take that power away from people. And I think that that is the messed up part about what this is. But I think the good part about what happens is how things play out, understanding your civil liberties, and under actually understanding what liberty is generally because all of this shit at some level infringes upon your individual liberty which we are granted and your civil rights. And that’s not just like, a minority thing that plays out in sex, and whether you’re being discriminated against or not. Unless, of course, we’ve progressed to a place where like, oh, discrimination. Yeah, we don’t handle that. And that is apart. I don’t know.

Travis 1:03:19
Well, option. I’ll continue to handle that. That’s my business. It keeps me employed.

Herman 1:03:26
Oh, yeah, I guess you get to see that on a day to day.

Travis 1:03:29
Hopefully not. Hopefully, a build organization where I don’t see a ton of discrimination. But

Herman 1:03:34
why not? Yeah, not the discrimination. But here’s how race plays out in the workplace, you’re gonna see

Tim 1:03:38
it browse through and it’d be an uptick?

Travis 1:03:40
Well, that’s why it’s always good to have a black HR manager. So if you were a fortune 500 company, out there listening. Need Somebody? Call me. So

Tim 1:03:56
I’m glad you have a rosy outlook. But it looks pretty bleak today,

Herman 1:04:00
the outlook is America goes on. We all move on. Like, not everyone will go into war wasn’t great. Like we lost American lives at a war that probably

Tim 1:04:08
going to add that on top to all of this sometime soon.

Herman 1:04:14
Man, I think that’s the thing that I’m like, that is one position that I take

Tim 1:04:17
around with a recession. So which is a

Herman 1:04:21
whole other thing because I’m like, for a recession to take place, like because people like we’re already on a recession or recessions coming, but I’m like, if you look at the jobs numbers, though, people are still employed. And like, it would be the weirdest thing for us to go into a recession while everybody’s still making money.

Tim 1:04:35
And they’re still open jobs.

Herman 1:04:37
I know. Right? And I’m like, so

Travis 1:04:38
many people are making money. So I’m like, how people are working from home. So kinda like how Buckmaster Bro.

Herman 1:04:45
Bro? That is gonna play out so different than I think people think, right? We know what a recession looks like. Everybody loses their jobs. Nobody has the money, everything tanks. This is about to be different. And I think that we’re going to have to identify what to call what’s about to happen. But I feel kinda like the same way about where we’re headed. Like, I feel like I have a good idea on where we’re headed, which at some level, I would have said, We’re never going into a civil war. No, I think that that could happen. I just don’t think it looks like that bat war in the past. I just think it looks a lot different. It’s more legally focused. And it’s, you know, a lot less. You know, weapons involved, potentially. I don’t know. But I think we’re gonna have to have a I want to say a war against politicians. But people are gonna I mean, there’s gonna be millions of people that are upset. They’re

Tim 1:05:37
all going to be strapped.

Travis 1:05:38
There’s hope it doesn’t go down like Japan, man.

Herman 1:05:41
Oh, my God. Yeah, that that was crazy. Yeah. And I’m like, I remember seeing pictures of him with Obama and Trump, like, who was what Prime Minister?

Travis 1:05:48
Do? Was it heavily influential, influential. If you don’t know what we’re talking about was the Jim Japanese prime prime minister, ex Prime Ministers prime x prime x prime minister who was gunned down by an assailant in Japan.

Herman 1:06:03
And it wasn’t a gun. It was a it was a homemade it was a homemade gun. Right? I’m like, because they don’t have access to firearms like that.

Travis 1:06:10
Yeah, they only have like, nine deaths a year something like that. Really? You gotta try? Yeah, he really, really outside the box. But no, no, politicians might be under siege. Man. I don’t know more so than comedians.

Herman 1:06:25
Right. So we can continue going down? Actually, I don’t know what

Tim 1:06:32
I think you need to just wrap it up. Because I’m, you know, you’ve painted a very, so arcane, gloomy picture.

Herman 1:06:45
Look, so I always want to end on a high note, because I’m like, there’s so many unknowns that actually can can lead to better outcomes on these things. But I do think, yes, we are probably entering a place of political decline, behavioral decline, just north anomic decline, economic decline at some level, right. So those things are gonna happen. But you can defend yourself against that. I think the conversation that people really need to have is to understand if your world and you live in some you losing some level of your civil liberties or your rights, how that plays out in your home as an individual. And so I was telling Tim, like, you guys have a place in Mexico, you could go there, if you feel like things are getting out of control. If you feel like that, that regression is too much. You can leave I’m not saying you should. But I’m just saying you could dip out for a little bit. So I just feel like people need to think of an exit strategy. Like it’s a normal thing to have businesses have exit strategies, right? Like that’s a normal thing. So whether it is moving to a different state that gives you more rights and freedoms, or a voice, maybe that’s your situation. And maybe it’s like, well, we need to save up for the next five years because we want to see what’s going to happen in the next 10 Be prepared for it. Maybe you should get up there and vote what

Tim 1:08:00
you started by saying no I love the end games in a positive plan. Amen If you need if you need a bunker, I know a good

Travis 1:08:13
website a find by understate that aligns with you Sam’s gonna talk about your shitting move there. In the

Tim 1:08:20
next episode, Tim will talk about getting dual residency tax back of living in afford

Herman 1:08:28
not saying that those things are going to be the now we’re

Tim 1:08:31
talking though this we’re on the same we’re on the same page is such

Travis 1:08:34
a positive 1800s meth way of living,

Tim 1:08:38
bro, prepare for the worst for pets. All we can do right now.

Herman 1:08:42
You don’t even have to do anything I got to do is

Tim 1:08:45
great. Thank you. Thank you, you wrapped it up in my head, bro, get more present exactly what I needed. Just

Herman 1:08:51
look, don’t take your eye off of the bigger picture and know that you as an individual, you can make an impact when things aren’t going right. Stay the course man cuz I’m like, I think we’re going to enter this place where it’s like going to be easy to give up. But if people don’t give up, if the LGBTQ community stays their course, if gerrymandering should gets overturned and we lose our rights, like we still got we just got to make those American has been easy for a long time. And that’s

Travis 1:09:17
the problem, though, is that we are relying on communities to to handle their own business.

Herman 1:09:25
That’s what that is what the ebb and flow of America has been. We have had it easy as shit our entire lives. We didn’t have to do what my dad had to do and look at the outcome. Now I would say that we our generation has been kind of lacks when it comes to

Travis 1:09:40
maybe Tim and I were in public school. We were we were out on the frontlines summit during racism so you could come in as a junior and just walk right? Smiles, making people laugh and shit drinking water. Yes,

Herman 1:09:56
we are here. Building the foundation.

Travis 1:10:00
was out here taking these lumps.

Herman 1:10:01
Wow. But I’m just like,

Tim 1:10:03
I love that it’s true man. That’s the episode write it down.

Herman 1:10:08
So we could have it easy. So my thing is, is we’re just about to move into a time where shits not easy and we might have to have that fight again, as a nation to bring together a better union of progress and moving forward in a meaningful way. Talking more about technology than about shit from the past. That is not taking us to a better place.

Tim 1:10:30
Man, I wish your your closing arguments could have kept me close that you opened it back up. If you would have stopped with playing for the worse. I was with you. But to me, I think it was ahead of you actually. Bro, you I think it’s time to focus on you. Focus on you and yours. Get yours, stack it, put it away. Save it plan for the worst financially. Like because with every downturn, we’re wherever it happens, right? This might not be or it might be a new weird recession. Find the come up to find it. Because in recessions is there’s always opportunity, right? Find it, build it, save it, plan for the worst because it’s coming.

Herman 1:11:21
I literally after after regatta returned, it was like a day I thought I’m not at it’s reached out to death. I was like, amen. I’m thinking about trying to figure out who manufactures the most pregnancy testing kits. Because my assumption is more women are going to be testing to find out if you’re pregnant sooner than later, right? Like, this is going to curb a lot of the way.

Travis 1:11:43
Swear during this episode. I was surprised you didn’t talk about putting stock and Trojan.

Herman 1:11:49
Oh, but you already know, that’s where I am mentally because I’m like, to your point of like, you know, trying to save up or where the opportunity is, I’m like that people should be definitely looking at sex a lot different or a lot more structured, or whatever people are going to how are people going to spend that money.

Travis 1:12:04
I mean, I just look at those different. I think that my big thing is what Tim is saying to you, is kind of like a life credo for me. So like, it doesn’t have to be stack, you know, prepare stuff like that sounds really, really good to me. But I think that we talked about good versus evil, and sometimes you are good. But the cause doesn’t identify with you, because it’s not necessarily hitting home, because it’s not your bag, per se. But I think we need to have the wherewithal to be able to understand the game that’s being played around us and the ramifications of all these different moves. And you can’t rely on one community to have to lead a charge. They may have to be out there on the front. But they honestly if you’re on the side of good. And then you need to be rallying behind that cause because those who are on the side of good, but maybe coming from a different angle, I need your support. And you we have to start doing stuff better, but we have to find a strategic way. And I really think that you need to quit focus on your federal and focus on your local, which would be your state because that appears to be who has all the power because those federally, we don’t want it

Tim 1:13:27
okay. That it may cause it on that. Probably because it’s so authoritative.

Herman 1:13:37
I mean, it was a third I mean, very authority. Below. Yeah. Not necessarily wrong, man. People just need to pay attention, man. People pay attention to so like what you’re like live like an individual. I’m like, Yeah, pay attention to the individual. But also don’t take your eyes off of the macro aspect of what this is because everyone is going to be affected.

Tim 1:13:59
I think what I got from all that is figure out what you care about. Yes. Like, like truly care about and will defend and die for. Because you’re probably going to have to make a choice here pretty soon. Like, you know being allies great and all but what if, like, get ready for them to come after something that affects you or that you love directly? Yes,

Herman 1:14:26
they come after your relationship and love it’s

Tim 1:14:29
like you said like we’ve been had we’ve had it easy. Yeah. But now they’re coming for and I don’t know what it is like. I mean, yes. Roe versus Wade affects me and my wife, my daughter and her future. Absolutely. I’m not feeling that pain right now. Right? But what is it what’s next? Yes, and not that I’m like that was the converse and what do I do with now okay, I’m like Mr. Oh us Mr. Fucker, you know in the last episode, but now What? How do I fortify myself and my family for whatever other civil liberties or freedoms will be taken away, and

Herman 1:15:10
this goes back to the conservative versus, like, versus liberal makeup of America, where it’s like, less federal government, less government control, smaller government, smaller government doesn’t mean less dollar smaller government means the people making the decisions. And this goes right back to why the blue, you know, try to get more federal to govern the states, because we know what the states are going to do. We saw that we saw that less than 100 years ago, you know, I’m saying so it’s like, we know, we have it easy, because we didn’t have to experience it. We didn’t have to fight in this way. But we know what that looks like. And although a new makeup might look different, it is what we need to protect ourselves from. So jump into those legislatures be a part of that conversation, understand the broader dynamics of what different legislation means, right? Like people like, Oh, this is going to affect that they don’t know to take that back to a group of people, or what group put this this conservative. I mean, the Heritage Foundation is a group that literally said, these are the judges that are going to overturn Roe vs. Wade. That’s what you put, but people didn’t know that. Pay attention like this. The thing is, these aren’t hidden strategies, or like it’s all public to a certain extent, like it’s talked about it just people were focused on micro issues, instead of focusing on the macro, so pay attention.

Travis 1:16:29
I think every time you kind of get into this point where you don’t, you want to give up or you don’t want care, then you find little nuggets. And I think in this conversation, I’ve kind of found reasons to care. I think it’s gotten me charged up in some degree. So thanks, Herman for bringing the topic to the forefront. But I think that it’s just really imperative that we, as patriots, we define what’s truly important to us and the American experience. And we’re okay, and feeling comfortable and expressing ourselves according to

Herman 1:17:05
Your duty is to serve your nation. And that doesn’t necessarily mean joining the military, it means participating in your government. As a citizen of America, you can participate in that process. You can sit on boards, you can be on the Board of Education, you can affect that change, little light for what’s happening now. But you got to start somewhere, and I can’t think of a better time than today.

Travis 1:17:26
What’s crazy is that there’s nothing we the only thing you could have done is not elect Trump president.

Herman 1:17:31
Oh, shit, we didn’t touch on his return in 2024. But that will be that’s

Travis 1:17:39
anyway, cool.

Tim 1:17:40
Well, I was gonna end it on that. But both of y’all are so gung ho. About you need to get involved, and you need to become a part of the change and run for office. And I don’t see either one of you. Motherfuckers running for office.

Herman 1:17:59
And that’s what we’re going to talk about Kefalas you

Tim 1:18:01
doing? Is just talking about it?

Travis 1:18:04
Wait a minute, Dwayne. You

Tim 1:18:05
have the mines, in the end, the inspiration and the capability to be leaders. In everything that you’re talking about,

Travis 1:18:17
I have chosen the avenues. I have brought my thoughts and opinion through the airwaves.

Tim 1:18:24
Oh, so you’re so you’re a thought leader?

Travis 1:18:26
I mean, I’m a thought leader I am is impactful with less media audience, of course. Your favorite Don Lemon.

Herman 1:18:37
Okay. You seen yourself like that?

Travis 1:18:43
I mean, on a smaller scale,

Herman 1:18:44
okay. On a fraction on a small scale,

Travis 1:18:48
fractional basis. CNN. But that’s how we motivate man. The political office got a good speeding problem, which is one of the lesser offense. Nature at this time.

Oh, man, all right. Yeah. I’m gonna have to register.

Tim 1:19:21
A lot. The only way

Herman 1:19:24
to get registered, get out there and vote.

Tim 1:19:27
Yes. That’s what he was saying.

Travis 1:19:30
And yeah, and you know, like, Herman would be good at politics, theoretically, but he cares so much. That is hard. Like, you know, like, it’s just not in line with the people who are in politics these days. It’s

Herman 1:19:44
not a rewarding anything. There’s nothing about politics except for like a showing up on your doorsteps pissed off because you voted for something. I think about that all the time. I’m like, because when I sat on the planning commission, like we were just a nominating committee, where people bring plans book to your city. And you sit there and you talk about the plans and then you put it before the city council to vote yes or no. Yeah, think about everything that came through and it’s like, oh, this shit by my house, I’m like, damn, this is really impacting like, it’s a great thing. Economic development. But it was boring. And people came up there and people came up there shouting at the it our committee, which is not going to say yesterday, you know, I’m saying like, people don’t even know who to be pissed at.

Travis 1:20:25
You imagine Herman just walking through target with his family and telling his wife to put stuff back and somebody comes, just runs up and talks about somebody he passed. says no life for him.

Herman 1:20:40
Maybe, again, outcomes, we will see what happens. We will see how things play out if Harper versus more stands, I will feel completely different. But if it falls, so two goes any power?

Travis 1:20:57
Nah, you know, it’d be interesting to see but I think that just seems appears that everything that has been litigated is up for grabs and open for reevaluation and that’s kind of crazy

Herman 1:21:09
scary in it. Right? Like, everything is heading a certain way. Right. Like, I thought that you know, gay marriage should be the norm to me, it doesn’t affect my life at all. And I’m happy that people love one another can get married, but the thought of that going away I’m like, well, it’s grown by by it just why are we even doing that?

Travis 1:21:27
It’s all love man. Why do you care who people love, love who you love and

Herman 1:21:32
because because a document from 200 years ago says or doesn’t say something about a situation? That’s crazy

Travis 1:21:40
and doozers and awakes getting it in them

Tim 1:21:45

Travis 1:21:48
stuff back in the day

Herman 1:21:50
so again, the other I am hopeful you know what makes it look mixed? Mixed babies are going to change the trajectory of Roe versus Wade I think that that’s just another part that like an unforeseen thing,

Tim 1:22:05
bro, they finna come under File next there’s about to be a nation. Like there’s gonna be so they’re gonna have to have an association because they come in after mix babies next. breed.

Herman 1:22:17
That’s all I’m saying there.

Tim 1:22:19
Bro. Yeah,

Herman 1:22:22
there’s gonna be a lot of kids. They’re gonna be like, Oh,

Tim 1:22:26
neat. Snapper. It’s all bad. I’m sorry. It’s all good. Yeah. Till next time, part two, part two.

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