Relationships: Leaving Toxic Traits in the Past and Growing Together with ‘The One’

Sep 23, 2022 | Season 3

On the heels of Herman’s perfect empty house Man Day, we discuss relationships past, present, and future. Did we truly leave our toxic traits behind us? How do we build stronger lives with stronger wives? And why did it take fatherhood and 40 to finally feel grown?

This week’s Black in the Middle answers these questions and more… very carefully. Nobody wants to sleep on the couch.

Hosts & Guests

Travis Brown

Herman Watson

Tim McCoy

“Life plans, man you gotta make them together. Wifey and I did not have these conversations. I was the ambitious one. She wanted to be a wife and mother. That was her goal. She did not tell me this or I probably would have run away.” ~Tim

“My wife went back to school, tooled up, doubled and it was off to the races. It changes the dynamic, which was hard for two people who don’t like to step back. But to move forward, I had to level up.” ~Herman

That was a man’s day. He got football. He got barbecue. He got quality time. If you got a man day like that, how does it look?” ~Travis

“I would have to put the gym in there, because that’s me, but with a smile on my face. For once it wouldn’t take me an hour to get to the gym with two toddlers in tow.” ~TIm

“I’d get some Gates BBQ. That’s high on the list. Maybe throw a little golf in there, but mainly just lounge and skip making the bed.” ~Travis

“When my son was small I thought I’d have to build a BOY into a MAN. That he’d have to be HARDENED. But he’s just a naturally more compassionate human being and I LOVE who he is.” ~Travis

Leaving things UNSPOKEN. In the past, that meant a lack of commitment. Not going in DEEP. Now I’m way too patient and I let things LINGER. It’s all unclear communication.” ~Herman

“If you have this last name, Watson, you’re going to be supported. I’m going to devote myself to making sure you’re a good person.” ~Herman

“When you have a kid, it puts like four years of age and wisdom on you. Real quick. If you can figure out how to use that in the right way, it’s a game changer.” ~Tim

“When you have somebody totally dependent on you, you get invested in that. And it really does shift the priorities.” ~Travis

“Young love is sexual experience and surface-level enjoyment. It’s not a deep commitment or a deep understanding of that person.” ~Travis

You’re not going through things together. You live totally separate lives. You meet on occasion and you feel like you’re in love… But you don’t even really know them yet.” ~Tim

I don’t think you even know what love is at that age. You think love is something that’s described in a song or a movie. It’s an immature notion.” ~Travis

There’s typically a big variance between the HIGHS and the LOWS in a toxic relationship. There’s no even keel. No BALANCE. Healthy relationships live in balance.” ~Tim 

 

Toggle for full episode transcript »

Tim 0:02
Alright, we are back. These are your host Tim Travis Herman we’re going to talk about relationships today. And not just any relationship but a healthy relationship.

Herman 0:13
Why don’t want to talk about that?

Travis 0:14
What the hell do we know?

Tim 0:16
Herman? As Ben Herman has had his freedom for 24 hours his balls have been out swinging all throughout the house all

Travis 0:26
Johnson dance just

Tim 0:29
you know, watch TV on every TV in the house, but naked, kept himself so making popcorn good.

Herman 0:37
I spent 1000 $1,000 on the food that I want to eat it in every room

Travis 0:43
perfectly buttered popcorn.

Tim 0:44
It was it was a really of DoorDash was just handing you back again. Crumble was laying with labor. Did they have a

Herman 0:54
look when I was too tired? Even order crumble man. Oh, I wonder was that a was it the buttered toast cookie from crumble? No, not butter toast? french french DoorDash crumble? Yeah,

Travis 1:06
please do not let that get out.

Tim 1:08
It’s already crumble.

seven business days.

Herman 1:13
Delivers. I don’t understand. Yeah, it’s the global app might be the best app. I thought that Chipotle had a really good app for brunch.

Tim 1:22
late delivery is the worst.

Herman 1:25
Not if you only do the kid minutes. Nah,

Tim 1:27
man. When we do the kids meal, they never put the beans or rice in there is like his little dried up piece of beef. And it’s like what just happened? It’s the worst. Unless you go to where yourself you know? Right. But anyway, we digress. Herb, tell us about your glorious weekend,

Herman 1:43
man. Let me tell you the past 24 hours had been something just you just I haven’t had it in years, right? Like I my entire home. Just to myself. Why if you took the kids birthday party, so it was just me and a bunch of animals in the house. You know who else was an animal doctor?

Tim 2:05
There was only one getting fed.

Herman 2:06
Dude. I was like, Look you animals can eat in the morning. I have laziness to accomplish. I have things to think about in my brain space in this bed or on this couch while watching all this football with no interruptions. Oh my god.

Travis 2:21
I do think it’s wonderful sometimes just to be able to enjoy the crib by yourself

Herman 2:27
in the house by myself with nobody there for like two years because Wi Fi works from home. The kids are always there love my wife and my kids don’t get it twisted.

Tim 2:37
But let me say we might twist it up in this episode. Just

Herman 2:39
no questions. No questions. Nobody prompted me for snacks or food or juice. Or Daddy would have just

Tim 2:46
used his coloring on the Gacha ed kids. Hey, look,

Herman 2:49
I could have gone to bed by 10. I was like man, this is a I don’t even know what to do. I went to gates and I just got all the barbecue. All the things all the extra

Tim 3:02
viewers like yes, yes, you. Let me tell you

Herman 3:05
about the lab to go that doesn’t need to be shared with another soul. Full half chicken. Chicken. Yeah, dog. Three sausages. That’s what’s up, man. Yeah, man. Well, I’m

Tim 3:20
glad you enjoyed your well. Alright, so she just took him for the day. So what really 24 hours,

Herman 3:24
we’ll be back in less than 24 hours. We’re

Travis 3:27
gonna call it 12 hours. They’ll

Herman 3:29
be back this afternoon.

Tim 3:32
Okay, so Alright, so you had this freedom, which is very important. As far as I’m concerned, I’ve always been a proponent of balance. And I think balance is the key to healthy anything. Right. So like everything in moderation. And I think I might have like a semi addictive personality. You know, like, if I do one thing, I’ll just go like all in and make bad decisions about everything else. Yeah, for like a short period of time, but it’ll be intense do it and be like, Oh, that was a little much. Let’s just dial that back. But eventually I’ll get there. So you find that balance.

Travis 4:11
So so if you get a man day like that, what does it look like for

Herman 4:13
you? Is his is that’s a great his woman,

Travis 4:17
man day, you know? He got football. He got barbecue. He got quality time. What does it look

Tim 4:27
like? I mean, it’s not too dissimilar.

Herman 4:30
It’s so relaxing. It is.

Tim 4:31
I mean, you just don’t want to do anything. Right. So I would have I would have put the gym in there. Because that is you doing me.

Herman 4:41
Shoulders looking

Travis 4:43
in there shrugging this guy.

Tim 4:45
Right. And I would have had a smile on my face, right because it wouldn’t have taken me an hour to get to the gym. Because I didn’t have two toddlers in tow. I wouldn’t have to go swimming and put two buttons on a little girl headed and put a swimming cap on and then worry out a little boy’s feet touching the disgusting floor in the bathroom. I wouldn’t have to worry about any of

Herman 5:05
that. You know what the funniest thing was? When I’m like it was the amount of time right like nothing took any time I could just Yeah. Like, because I’m, like did normal stuff like I grabbed the dogs like pig ears to chew on because that keeps them occupied. And I stopped by Best Buy. I did all this stuff on my

Tim 5:20
own in a short amount of time.

Herman 5:23
45 minutes I was like, Well, what do I do now?

Tim 5:26
Yeah, so like, it’s, you know, it’s it is it’s just, it’s good to like, just not have to listen or listen to anyone hear any other opinions perspectives, wants needs, it’s just you. And it’s mentally peaceful. But hey, so you don’t have to do much.

Herman 5:46
But it’s also funny because you want to do much Right, right.

Tim 5:50
So my itinerary will be like, hella long but and I’ll probably do like 50% of the things but it’s you know 100% more than what I would have did on a regular Saturday you know, so yeah, right. What would you have done? Well,

Travis 6:05
it would have been very similar to what Herman did I would have loved to get some guys barbecue that’s that’s higher on the list, but definitely some football I probably would add golf you know, maybe yeah, maybe throwing a little golf in there but mainly just lounge and not like do the little things like make up the bed make our bed

Herman 6:25
y’all making a bed still having

Tim 6:27
left the bed? Yeah,

Travis 6:29
yeah, I’m still in the bed the things that you do for her Yeah, yeah. What you don’t have to do to do you know I wouldn’t happen it’s all open good chance. Every door is open my my sleep on top of the sheet.

Herman 6:44
I actually redid the bed in the best sheets and just slept all

Tim 6:47
over so that’s funny like when Wi Fi goes out of town I do sleep on her side. Oh, shut up. Shut up. I’m not sniffing the pillow or anything. But she just has the convenient side she’s right there. Right there’s where’s the bathroom? Me? My sacrum my daily sacrifice I gotta walk all the way around the bed. Nope.

Herman 7:09
I just want my body weight to reshape that side you

know sabotage

yeah

Tim 7:20
alright, so So you had a you had a very simple doing day it was and it was

Herman 7:26
peaceful. It was so good man. Yeah, it was you just don’t get those all the time.

Tim 7:30
I mean, I haven’t seen you come in with a smile like this. Yeah, man

Herman 7:34
in my car even like

Tim 7:35
it had a horrible morning yes.

Herman 7:39
Yes way Well, good. And Devon care Kudo tonight no worry at all. As soon as we get done with this I gotta call triple A or get it doesn’t even matter if

Tim 7:47
they’re gonna come Oh you have how many hundreds of 1000s of miles on this car sir What did you expect? I’d like

Herman 7:53
well you jump it take it I’ll get the AAA van

Tim 7:59
alright so but all right so that in of itself is an insight when you are when you have peace of mind the little things or even the big things like not having transportation don’t fuck with you as much no right? Stride

Herman 8:16
I stay here in this bed

Tim 8:21
said the tags like a so my car’s not starting we week next week and cancel today. praying hands or tea you could come get me question mark hands up in the air.

Herman 8:42
Look the day

Tim 8:43
to whatever though. Yeah, he got his boat that a bed? Because I was like I’m cool either way. Right?

Travis 8:51
But you were

Tim 8:54
speaking a healthy relationship. All right. So okay, so you had a great day, you’re in a great mood, you taking things in stride. The first thing that you come in to talk about is all the mistakes you’ve made lessons learned and your previous relationship. So I’m seeing some sort of like journey that you have, you know, you kind of come to a summit, where you found some really healthy balance. You feeling good? And now we got to reflect on how we got here, right? Because I could say I’m in a very healthy relationship.

Travis 9:28
It’s no shock that when he had free time, he became pensive.

Herman 9:34
Yeah. Go ahead. No, no, no. All right.

Tim 9:40
So you’re, I feel like I mean, I may be projecting but I feel like you’re at a good moment to talk about the trials and tribulations that got you to where you are today and where you can go further now that your eyes have been open for this 12 hours. For the reader, and I know No, it’s not just that let’s spread this episode, like this was already kind of in the works.

Herman 10:05
But through I reflect on a lot. And I think about people that struggle often. And I Yeah, so like in my time reflecting like I thought about like, what does a good relationship look like? What did I not know about a good relationship? Right? Like, as a young Thundercat, you’re out here seeking all this extra. But whenever you get past some of that I’m like, You know what, this is a great spot to be in, right? Like, I’m in the comfort of my own home. I got this piece. Just generally happy man. I feel like a lot of people just aren’t happy. Maybe everybody is happy? I don’t know. But yeah, I would love to share like,

Travis 10:38
Yeah, I mean, I think what it is, I mean, and relationships have been a topic amongst the three of us recently, because we have a guest coming on soon, who wrote a book. And so we’re prepping and getting prepared mentally. And then as we as we proceed, but I think that it’s a real cool feeling to just be able to be at peace to the point where you can sit back and discuss things that have happened, your journey and how you got from point A to point B. So we look forward to hearing how you

Herman 11:13
got there. He acts like I can’t ask questions back.

Travis 11:20
I can definitely I can double check it. But this pause. But But I think that we’re in a real good place. So let’s have that conversation.

Herman 11:29
Go ask me whatever you want. Player. You’re funny. I’m not answering that.

Tim 11:35
All right, let’s let’s start with a go. And have you ever been in a toxic relationship? Absolutely. Because in the last episode, what did I ask you? Have you ever been cheated on? You were like, probably. It was a quick reaction.

Herman 11:46
I thought about that. After I said it. I’m like, wait a minute, but that did not really full context of what that was was a

Tim 11:54
mentorship numbers, man. Yeah, I’m

Herman 11:56
like Jay Shetty. I’m like, if I was, which I wouldn’t care, I also kind of wouldn’t care. Because I probably also was so you know, like, it just it was, I answered real quick. But I just I think that there’s certain assumptions that you need to make during the dating phase, right? Like, it’s, it would be weird for you to meet somebody. Right? Like that’s not involved with other people like, so in my mind. I’m like, yeah, if I liked this person, like, I should assume that they might, you know, be in another relationship before they jump out, or whatever that is. So sure. Now, that’s very interesting. Well, I mean, I personally think you just have to prep yourself for every worst case scenario, which means whatever truth lies within that it doesn’t sting as much. Right?

Tim 12:40
But that’s, that’s 40 year old her 20 year old Harmon

Herman 12:44
wasn’t thinking like, when I think back, I’m like, you know, I don’t know, I don’t think that I ever actually was in love with most of the people I dealt with, like, not even close, potentially, I’ve come to that realization myself. Yeah. Because there were things and like, you think that relationship was so whatever, but then you realize, like, Oh, my God, like, there were so many things.

Tim 13:02
You were taught you had a 20 year old heart, 20 year old mind, you had no idea what you were doing

Travis 13:07
a 20 year old. I mean, I don’t think you know what love is, like, I really think that you’re trying to find that. And if you think that love is something that’s described in a song or a movie, then then that’s what your compasses but you don’t really truly know what love is, until, you know, you mature and go through something

Herman 13:27
you tell you understand every aspect of the human condition, right, like young love is sexual experience and enjoyment of a person that is pretty surface level, right? Like, it’s not like a deep commitment, or a deep understanding of of the depths of that person. Maybe

Tim 13:46
it’s not a deep interaction. Yeah. Right. Like, you’re not going through things. You live totally separate lives. And so you meet on occasion, and, yeah, it’s easy for that. You know, that hour that two hours or that five minutes pass into the hall to be the best experience of your life? Yeah, I feel like you’re in

Herman 14:02
love. And it’s so like, I think about how many relationships and like, you’re not really talking about broader goals. You’re not talking about, you know, family and background like you’re not actually connecting sometimes, right? Actually,

Tim 14:14
I used some my pitch was that I wanted to open up this International School of Art for children. Okay, and I would always lead with that game. I was talking about big goals. I’m just saying.

Herman 14:35
They’re like you’re a freshman at here at FAMU talking about opening up. Get out of

Tim 14:41
17 to 117 That’s a lofty anyway.

Travis 14:52
Oh boy.

Tim 14:53
So toxic relationship, toxic relationship. Have you been in a toxic relationship? Yes, and I’ve actually never thought about this until I saw this question.

Herman 15:04
Yeah, it looks oh my god, describe it. Describe this, give this Excel Swiss look. So this experience, really let me understand how kind of sheltered I was growing up in the middle, like I had never been around. Yeah, a certain personality type that was really, I’m gonna say that this person had a true hustlers mentality, and was willing to do and say whatever to like, latch on and stay connected. And I really didn’t know how to escape that because I’m like, I grew up nice. Like, it’s some level, I didn’t know how deep to question like, well, what you’re saying are not things that people lie about, like, right? being enrolled in college, or like big life. You find this stuff out. I’m like, Who lies about that? Right? Like, so I’m like, it was very toxic from their perspective. And I’m like, I’m also not above saying that I too, could be toxic. Right? So I’m like, in a lesson learned, people can lie about some pretty big stuff. But there’s also some things that I probably should have picked out initially, that I just chose to

Tim 16:05
just ignore. Yeah, the joy of the relationship. Well, if it was toxic, right, then there’s, there’s typically like a high. Yeah. A lot, you know, like a big variance between the highs and the lows and the toxic relationship. Yeah, well, there’s no there’s no even keel, right? Because if we go back to the I mean, this is my answer for the episode is balance. And that’s where Oh, man healthy relationship lives. That was in the toxicity, its

Herman 16:33
relationship was so imbalanced, and I just didn’t know how to get away from it. And to get away from it came with a lot of heat, right? Like just the crazy things people do. And I’m like, I don’t think it was me being special more than this wasn’t for this person’s wanting to not feel rejected or feel like they were lesser than, because possibly they had landed on maybe what appeared to be like a goldmine. Like I was something to covet. And I’m like, I’m just a dude out here. Making money live in life. I don’t think I’m anything that’s special. This person saw more in me than probably what I was, and they were not willing to give that up. But also willing to go to extreme lengths. Yeah, to I don’t know, just to do some crazy stuff. And specifically, it would be around the lying. So what was their motivation for looping? Yeah, so I think that the motivation was, they were probably in a tougher spot than they put on, which I probably should have figured out, which meant that, you know, I could, you know, help with money here and there, but I’m like, I really didn’t know. And it’s like, I was passing off money, like here, you know, but it’s just like, it just my issues weren’t the same. And I didn’t know what those issues were until after the fact I’m like, Oh, you were lying about where you lived, you know, like, they were doing all this thing is one of those. Yeah, and like, it’s crazy man. Like I because me like, I am not a liar. Like I’m sure at some point have lied or lies about missioned people, or, you know, your dude. Yeah. You know, like, just not serious about things. Exactly. I’m like, it’s just true, but he’s only forgivable because I’m quite enjoyable. So it’s funny, it’s

Tim 18:14
claimed it’s true. What? Self proclaimed?

Herman 18:18
No, but um, you know, like, when you’re focused, like, it’s funny, because I feel like as an individual, like, I can be balanced because like, while the craziness is going on behind the scenes, I’m so focused on my goals, my passion, my drive my earnings, like, what am I going to do with this money? I want to say if I’m gonna hit these, you gotta bounce it out. Yeah, like, I got this craziness in the back. But I’m like, not even thinking about that. Even when it rears its ugly head, it’s still just something to manage. Because I’m still focused on me being selfish with life.

Tim 18:49
It’s that is 40 year old. Herman talking. His 20 year old Herman would wouldn’t have caught himself selfish. That

Herman 18:57
is also true, but I mean, yeah, like, once you become once you hit our age, or like, once you have the child, I mean, you can do one or two things, right, like you can support or not support, or whatever that’s gonna look like, I chose to, if you have this last name, Watson, you’re going to be supported. You’re not gonna be out here being a Watson. That is, you know, just elsewhere, right? Like, I’m going to devote myself to making sure you’re going to be a good person. Good part of society. impactful. And, yeah,

Tim 19:28
so this toxic relationship was pre kid.

Herman 19:32
Yeah. It was pre kid.

Tim 19:35
I tell people, man, and when you have a kid, it puts like four years of age and wisdom on you like, real quick. Yeah. And if you can figure out how to use that in the right way.

Herman 19:46
Yeah, like you look at somebody that wrote that 100% has to rely on you. Like, it’s hard to turn your back on that.

Travis 19:53
I mean, yeah, I’m sure. Maybe, right. No, it is you know, when you have somebody who’s dependent on you, you get invested in that. And it really does shift the priorities.

Herman 20:04
Yeah. Or you constantly think about how you can be better at it if you can’t do what you need to do with that time, right? Like, that’s the mature thing to do, or like, it prompts you to have bigger goals, or try to achieve even more to be more supportive, even in messed up situations. Because it’s always gonna have like your highs and lows. Right? And I don’t know, I just look at everything kind of on this timeline of like, what I might not be able to do, then I’m definitely going to try to think through how I can do more later. Right. But it’s a process it takes time.

Tim 20:37
So what would you say is your most toxic trait that you give to a relationship?

Herman 20:46
I probably let things fester. Like if something’s going like, I don’t know, I don’t want to. I don’t take your point. I’m like, I don’t want to act like anyway, I can be extremely patient and like,

Tim 21:01
this isn’t an interview. Oh, wait, I guess it is. Yeah. What’s your biggest weakness?

Herman 21:07
Oh, here’s here’s my, here’s my biggest way to patient. I think mine is. I have a way of letting things linger that allow for lack of commitment, right, like unclear communication. And I don’t know if that’s a toxic, three trades.

Travis 21:28
Is it so abundant? Yeah.

Herman 21:34
Some relationships, I’ve

Tim 21:35
said bad communication.

Herman 21:38
It looks some relationships I’ve been in have come about because one, I was just too busy, too. It was just like kind of going back to this person with an unspoken what we are. But preferring not to talk about what this is. Right? And just like letting a relationship just kind of form right out of my lack of need, like care. Yeah. Like, maybe I was too selfish. Maybe I just didn’t care enough because this is a moment in time. Like, maybe I didn’t see it then. But I’m like, Dude, that’s kind of really messed up. Like, you got this person over here wondering what this is. And it’s like, every interaction you like, Let’s avoid that topic altogether. Yeah. But I don’t really know if that’s toxic. But um, I would imagine that behavior carries into just about every other thing. So it’s like you at the end of the day don’t really know who I am. Because we’re not having deep conversations. We’re not actually getting to know one another. And you throw out a heavy question. It’s like skirt. And that is that. Okay. What man? Oh, boy.

Tim 22:40
Mr. Brown, what is your most toxic trait?

Travis 22:43
Spins gun over? My most toxic trait? Hmm. That’s a tough question. Thinking about it. Question.

Tim 22:55
I know. I got somebody

Herman 22:57
occation Absolutely. All right, nation. Next episode. He’s got no motion done. I don’t know me like, every every time every argument sounds like HR, right. Thank you for sharing that. Just thank you for bringing that to the table. I appreciate your honesty.

Tim 23:25
I can tell that there’s been some improvement made.

Herman 23:32
If it’s not that, what is it?

Travis 23:36
Well, I ain’t saying that don’t happen. Most toxic trade? God, I’ll probably say my most toxic trade would be that. I mean, I got a lot of you know, I’m too patient to kind of hit home. Rip off. But I would probably say the most toxic trade is

Tim 24:00
yet impulse. Yeah, I’m

Travis 24:03
trying to think it’s just

Herman 24:05
not fair. I will manage it like the rest of the people I manage on a day to day basis.

Travis 24:08
I would say that, you know, I think the one thing that I struggled with for years was I was probably too scattered. So like nothing were you have my attention. You know, you have my attention. But I have so many different vested interests, that you don’t have my undivided attention. So yeah, you get these moments of you feel like I’m locked in. But then you feel like when I’m not around, I’m not around, like I’m not when I’m off with work, or I’m off with whatever else I was interested in at the time. So people just feel like there’s a void. And so, like, I’ve had to kind of work on that and the relationships you prioritize a little bit better. But I didn’t do well for that for years. You know, I would, you know, if something happened to Friend, I wouldn’t be there and then maybe forego responsibility to the relationship, you know, and it’s just like, failure to prioritize. So

Tim 25:09
those over house man, that’s what we call it. So I miss your toxicity. So

Travis 25:14
scattered. I would say that I would

Tim 25:17
such a good friend that he’s a bad boyfriend. Right?

Travis 25:23
I would say, failure to provide undivided attention would be difficult. That’d be one. That’d be the one that’s unique. Yeah,

Herman 25:29
Tim,

Tim 25:30
both we have, we all have the same toxic trait. When you’re not in the relationship that you’re not with the one that makes you feel different in this respect, is just not going to work. Because we are too selfish. We are too selfish. Why are you scattered? I was all through the place. It’s because you’re working on you. You’re trying to do you’re trying to reach your goals? Do you your dream?

Travis 26:00
time I’m trying to be everything to everybody yet.

Herman 26:02
Yeah.

Tim 26:03
Because that’s what fills you up. Those are your concerns. And when you put all of that, and you try to make a relationship work in that you’re right, it’s an it is divided. And you have to be 100%, not 99.9 100% committed. In order to achieve balance in the relationship row, I feel like as I hold on, because if you give that commitment, you’ll get it back. And that’s where the balance comes. And then you have those Saturdays by yourself, which balls out. You can watch football, uninterrupted for how many hours on a Sunday, you can go and podcast with your boys every week for three years straight, right? Because you have that balance, you have that trust, and that person knows that you’re always looking out for them. And not just yourself. It’s selfishness. Like, drop, too loud.

Herman 27:06
Now, that was a perfect explanation. And I could not agree more. And as I think about what that’s like how that selfishness plays out, it actually does play out in kind of what I was saying when like falling into a relationship based off a lack of communication. But that is does not stop infidelity, right. Like, it’s not like, not only am I not committed to this, like I still like I’m looking for who’s gonna fit into my broader goals, like on a selfish level. So that might not have been this person. I probably never thought about that then. But thinking back I’m like, Damn,

Travis 27:36
it’s like, it’s the thing didn’t get the thing that I should all I extracted from his soliloquy, was that good use of Soliloquy doubt. Thanks very much was, you feel like you’re being selfless? And you’re really being selfish? Yeah,

Tim 27:52
thank you. Because that’s where I was taken. And that’s the worst trait ever is when you fool yourself to think you’re the martyr, you’re selfless. You’re doing all these things for all these people, when really, you’re not doing shit for anybody that doesn’t have anything, because it’s all for yourself. Episode over moved to season four, let’s go. Now that I mean, for forever,

Travis 28:17
that’s what leads, that’s what leads to the friction because people tell you what they’re not getting from you. And you’re, you’re like, what will you keep procedure? So I heard this, and I listened to that. And I didn’t even respond to that, you know, I did this, and I did that and did this. But you know, I have to do this. And I have to do this. And I have to do this. So it’s like finding that balance, you know, of what, what’s proper and what’s not. And, I mean, I think the longer you’re in a relationship, perhaps, maybe there’s an arc, like you start early and you don’t have to get invested, then there’s a peak point of where, you know, people need you, undivided Lee. And then as you then probably get, you know, double digit years, then maybe it kind of, you know, regresses a little bit where, you know, we’ve got norm set we’re on we can be on autopilot on certain things. And now maybe I don’t need you, but you still can’t neglect what you’ve built in these norms. And if you neglect the norms, then we have a problem, Houston, but then at the same time, you can kind of find, you know, some balance that creativity and everything isn’t so much rigid, and how you need to commit your time and energy. I don’t know that’s just a hot pot.

Tim 29:32
Yeah. I mean, I mean, I’ve I’ve proved that hypothesis hypothesis is correct. I’ve tested it. And you’re right. I mean it like, you know, I mean, we’re when we were talking about true love here. Like the reason we all live

Travis 29:49
he put on his quads.

Tim 29:51
You know what I’m saying? DJ, but you know, because it I think that once you go through We all have this shit to gather. It builds, like this connective tissue where like you’re connecting in other places that you’d haven’t been focused on. But like when you fuck up, or they fuck up and you work through that shit, like you grow every single time. If you’re communicating, right, if you’re not gonna you’re both just fucking up, then you’re, you’re just building scar tissue that’s gonna, you know, separate you two, and you’re never it’s never going to work. So you can’t be overly patient, right? And let it fester. Yeah, to your, you know, your toxic trait. You gotta be communicative, right to your toxic trait. And you just got you can’t be selfish. So communication

Herman 30:42
factor is so important. And I know that’s like a baseline thing. But I think people but it’s so important. Yeah, it is. And it’s not just like, talking everyday. It’s actually like intentional questions. Yes. actually get to know somebody on a deeper level. Because that’s where you figure out how like, Wi Fi and meet we will you still to this day, find out new things that are new similarities that we have just based off of, like interests. That is Oh, shit, you were doing that to this, you had the same ringtone? Like, like, really? 20. Right. But I’m like, those come from situations where like, deep question because you know, me, I’m, like, always thinking about. And so not only that, but I’m like, you figure out their perspective on like, how so many things play a role, whether it’s like, their spirituality might come out and how they view and approach to something that you never even thought of?

Tim 31:34
Yeah. Well, in that as time goes, right, you go through different experiences, right? Especially if you have kids, you take that step or homeownership, you know, in laws, I mean, there’s so many dynamics that just get, you just get like, go through the gauntlet, right? You know, it, you just have to ebb and flow and fight these things, these battles together. And when you win, you know, and that just brings you closer together. But when you lose, as long as you communicate and learn from them freaking lessons, you can also still win. But but you know, like, in my experience, you know, the I read an article that said, Men do not reach full maturity until they are 40.

Herman 32:19
I would 100,000% agree with that, bro. I mean, it’s a you think you know everything by like, 35 I would say I felt like I knew

Tim 32:30
a lot but you thought you knew everything your entire life. That’s not necessarily come on. I just know that my doorman thought he was the smartest in the room

Herman 32:38
know,

Tim 32:39
he had a boat. Okay, yeah, Captain. Man. I think you know, you when you when you have when you come up, you know,

Herman 32:51
confident in everything I did.

Tim 32:53
Exactly. And that’s there’s nothing wrong with that. Yeah, right. There’s nothing wrong with that. That is what it takes to survive and to push to build a life for yourself. But I think

Herman 33:01
that it’s the it’s the moments in time that like, you see how a partner might react to a career change or to just the thing, the hardest parts of life that even when which yourself is phase, right? Like how that person responds to that, like, Oh, now they’re down and out because they’re depressed, but that person could be more supportive, or whatever that is sometimes those needs to get filled. Right? Yeah,

Travis 33:21
I would say that you’re definitely right about the 40. Because by the time you’re 40, life has thrown just a bomb. Yeah, toward you, you know, you’ve turned probably went through some relationship issues, you probably went through some work issues, you probably had some friends go south, you probably had death in the family probably had some financial challenges you needed to deal with because of some self inflicted wounds. That’s

Tim 33:45
why we have so many episodes of content. So it’s we’ve been through that.

Travis 33:52
By 40, you’re probably like, okay, you know, like, and I didn’t seen it all. Now. I mean, there’s other things that come down the line. Of course, you never seen everything. But

Herman 34:01
I think the best part about 40 is that you know how much you don’t know by 40. Exactly. And what like if you’re 14 with kids, you also realize every day is a learning day, because of the shit that comes up from these little children. They’re like, how do I manage that? How do I what and I don’t even know how to respond to some of the craziness that comes out. Right, right. But so yeah, you also build that intentionality behind how, what have I learned and how do I communicate that and you do it on a release, you should be doing it on an everyday basis.

Tim 34:30
So I didn’t mean to Jade has to do with a midlife crisis. But the whole 40 thing is just like I know, we’re 40 and, like, it’s got, like, when you turn 40 like it gets kind of a hold on your mental Right? Like it’s kind of a perspective that you see it’s a lens that you see a lot of things through. And one of the things you know, when you have kids is like you’ve had these 40 years, you know of life experiences, lived experiences, right that we’re talking about that make you More wise, which allows you to better manage your relationships. But when you have kids, now you’re kind of back to this same challenge of relationships Yeah, is where you have to be 100% selfless, because it’s not for you anymore. It’s not for you, it’s about the kids that you are raising in the life that you want them to have. And so that’s where I am right now. And even, you know, me and wifey and we battled this, because we’re both, you know, very aggressive, and, and like, like, we still haven’t reached our goals. So it’s like, alright, so um, this is me telling myself to sit back and build this life for my kids, like, make sure it’s about them, when I’m still not feeling fulfilled. You know what I’m saying? Yeah, and so,

Travis 35:50
and then there’s an element on there that you haven’t really got to yet. But you can probably feel a little bit. And that is, you’re doing all this for somebody who doesn’t truly understand, which is where you’re at, right? Or where he’s at. And where I’m at, doesn’t appreciate.

Herman 36:08
And it’s not even appreciate. It’s, it is appreciation, in addition to my generation does it different. And I’m like, your generation is no different. I’ve told my daughter, Look, little boys, they’re gonna be little boys until they’re in their 30s. So don’t get hung up on anybody, because they’re all stupid. I was just what you think I’m special. I was just as dumb as the rest. Just as selfish as

Tim 36:31
the thought we were special.

Travis 36:34
When you see like, when you see like, you go through some stuff, right? Like you go through some stuff within the day, you make some decisions, you do things. And then you have a teenager who like talks back to you. Who, you know, Oh, you didn’t do it this way? Or why didn’t you do this? Or they start to feel comfortable within their own selves, because they’re closer looking you in the eye? So then they just start talking back just recklessly and you’re just sitting there like that it

Tim 36:59
out? Well,

Travis 37:01
I ain’t necessarily speaking for me on this one. But,

Tim 37:04
but, but just speaking from

Travis 37:07
experience. Yeah. But like in somebody’s looking at you in you just kind of like, Hold on. Did you just talk to me

Herman 37:17
about kids is that the relationship ended because they think that things are so different. And I’m like, nothing ever changes. You’re doing what do you

Tim 37:25
I did my parents.

Herman 37:28
That’s what’s crazy. You want to go to a party want to have a slumber party at a friend’s house? No, like, at this age, right? Because I’m like,

Travis 37:37
that meant a lot of things. And I think they call shots

Tim 37:41
back to the toxic religion.

Travis 37:45
I recently had a discussion with a teenager going back and forth. Right. And after we played tennis once, bam, you know, sir, bam, you know, brought it back. Then brought it back to me. I

Tim 37:58
said, trying to make time.

Travis 38:02
Like it is what it is, like I said, I said what I said, okay, like, I mean, but like the fact that the Travis no gearing up for it, and to believe that the back and forth was okay. And

Tim 38:15
here’s the thing, you know, we might not have done that. Because we would have got popped in there. There was no back and forth. We was thinking it, yo, we was thinking it, we wouldn’t have said it. Now they bowled and they say in it. And the thing is to your point home like nothing’s different. Like it’s the same shit different technology,

Herman 38:33
you know, I’m saying and even that I’m like, yet the technology can change but the behavior stays the same. Like you’re gonna lie to get your independence to do things that I would say no to. Right. And you’re gonna do that all of the time. And I’m aware of that. And you know, Dan, I’m a good No, you’re not. Yeah, don’t lie to me. My dad will look you in the eyes feel like you can trust me. I don’t. A won’t.

Tim 38:57
They can. They’re the best liar. Yeah, I know. Because I thought I was the best liar. Right? And now I’m like, Oh, I was just like, okay, okay, boy. Yeah, you go ahead. You go ahead to Desmond.

Herman 39:14
A 16 year old young man have sleepovers?

Tim 39:18
Why is that why caviar, the lights off? Running the tree in the front of the house?

Herman 39:26
Jesus,

Tim 39:28
but, you know, so we’re, you know, with kids, right? We’re having the these battles the back these back and forth is really trying to raise them. Like and this is where just as a parent, I started reflecting in this relationship, because I don’t want them to be like I was I know now that I’m 40 I’m reflecting like, Oh, these were very toxic traits. How can I prevent him from No, I can’t man Okay. So how can I at least hemorrhage you know, some of the some of this the bleeding that will come after it is teaching them those skills like open communication. So I was gonna say this expressing yourself, you know, if you have issues,

Herman 40:03
this the same components of a healthy relationship or a healthy marriage are the same components that would make for raising a teen healthy to, which would be like good communication, mutual respect and what that looks like, right? Like, because I can respect my daughter’s opinion, even though I know she’s lying or has some intention, I just gotta get ahead of what that is. Yeah. But if you actually respect each other well enough, either one, maybe get their toll on the truth, right, but at least you can manage whatever the outcome is, because they’re going to have the freedom to make whatever decisions, you just want to make sure that they’re safe ones.

Travis 40:34
And none of us are raising our kids like we were raised. And so they don’t they do certain things that are very similar, of course, like, I guess, the schematic of it, or the fundamental love, it is the same but they’re not us. Far too weak, we were more hardened shelled than they were. And they’re more emotionally vulnerable and wild, because we’re raising them

Tim 40:59
when they’re raised in a different world.

Herman 41:00
Look, I think that they can get fixated on an aesthetic.

Travis 41:03
I think there’s so much different, right, like, I’m sure you tell your kids, you love them, way more than you were told

Tim 41:11
we are parents, you don’t? Absolutely my parents

Travis 41:15
did not say it, you know, like, I knew it. But you know, like,

Tim 41:21
I think I think we’re getting somewhere I

Herman 41:22
think somebody might probably somebody would differ with you.

Tim 41:26
I think we just had a breakthrough moment. Just continue to unpack this place.

Travis 41:31
parents weren’t like all the time, you know, it would come up occasionally. But my son has to have that, like he demands he demands it

Tim 41:39
because because you gave it to him all the

Travis 41:44
time. Because I gave it to him. I set that seed

Tim 41:47
and yes, also and I and I love it.

Travis 41:50
It’s also what you know, his, you know, his mother probably does that a lot, too. Yeah. And I’m not around as much as, as my father was. So you know, he doesn’t I probably annoyed my father or my mother more like, you know, you see somebody all the time. It’s like, yeah, you know, yeah,

Tim 42:07
I mean, your your parents were were. Yeah, they were showing their love through acts of kindness, right. Like, you got food on your table every day. I’m right here. I’m checking your homework. Like, this is my love my

Travis 42:22
son as we get through these. See where you’re going here? Is leveling, which is the words of affirmation. And I’m just like, Lee brother, like,

Tim 42:37
love you. But I can’t say it so many times in public is feels a little weird. Feels

Travis 42:41
like I’m watering it down. Say it too much is watered down. But you know, it’s like, I mean, it’s just one thing I know, right? Let

Herman 42:51
me tell you, I love you every day shit. I’m just kidding, man. Yeah. Multiple times a day

Travis 42:59
when my son

Herman 43:01
all morning, I’ve learned in

Tim 43:03
every text message. Like, I

Travis 43:05
can’t even express how many times it said well, you know, I there was a time where I needed him to know that, like I needed because I wasn’t sure what he was getting on the other side. I was pretty sure that he was getting it. He was getting words that were disparaging. And, and I was really probably driving that home. But what built from that is, you know, the constant want for words of affirmation. And so now, you know, I’m kind of like, we’ve established this, right. We don’t have

Tim 43:43
to do that. Okay, but it’s a no, no, I don’t know that once you

Travis 43:48
just go so different. Because when I was had kids that were Tim’s kids age, always talked about how things are gonna go as he grows. Yeah, I’m not gonna do this. Not gonna do that and ain’t gonna be this and ain’t gonna be this book, because I thought I was going to have to build a boy or to a man who had to be hardened. But the fact of the matter is, is that he’s just a naturally more compassionate human being. And I love who he is. Right? And I’ve, I have said, okay, like, I don’t need to put what was pressed upon me on to him. I just need to make sure that the lessons may

Tim 44:29
worry about him being the big Huggy Bear. It’s okay to be sensitive. You ain’t hard

Travis 44:42
I’m a grizzly bear.

Herman 44:45
Out here act like is hard for him to do with all them Deadpool is what made guys 30,000 Deadpool. Versatile, versatile. Oh, man. It’s it’s also really interesting that we kind of focus Sir fix it on this because it’s also like we’re, this is happening at a time where like, they hadn’t quite hit puberty right. Some like, that obviously plays a major factor in how aggressive or whatever changes he’s going to have later on hit puberty. But I’m gonna say it so like, okay, apparently we’re

Travis 45:17
not sure.

Tim 45:19
Right 39 through puberty for boys got deep 40 My dad string?

Herman 45:29
No, but it’s just funny because I’m like, I don’t know, like all those things like you kind of like, it’s easy to forget, it’s like, Man, why does this kid want all this love or to be told this? Yeah, 1000 times a day and then you realize changes might be happening in the next three years to where it could be totally

Travis 45:43
different. Yeah. And a few years, you know, he’s on look at me and be like, I’m just not gonna know anything. He’s gonna feel like he’s gonna say I love you dad. Once a quarter he’s gonna feel like he can square up because he’s, he’s taller. Because I remember I remember when I hit six, one, like, and I remember looking at my father’s eyes and be testing

Herman 46:02
him and be like, Oh, he got that old.

Travis 46:05
Like, you know, if something were to go down, I think I’m ready.

Tim 46:11
And he that he knew what he was thinking. Boy, yeah, get them thought daddy. Yeah.

Herman 46:15
Daddy strength is different. I’m still your dad. Yeah,

Travis 46:19
I’ve heard that so many times. He was looking at me just you know, he was he was purposely doing things just to put me in my place along Yeah, he

Tim 46:27
knew was coming.

Herman 46:29
Put these gainers. He never got a man in the Harold Pinter suit

nobody wants to

Tim 46:45
buy snakes games

Herman 46:48
45 year old man and $100 suit oh gosh,

Tim 46:53
but he got to do a

Herman 46:57
gold chain where

Tim 46:58
the woman was able to get two suits

Herman 47:02
buy one get one half off for the gold chain and the sandwich turning that down

Tim 47:07
say we lose to listeners talking about your opinions like this man that is Herman do not support this type of blasphemy openers brand.

Herman 47:26
It’s all good. So

Tim 47:32
it’s not Easter. So we get Yeah.

Herman 47:34
And Lavender. Lavender dot

Tim 47:38
a. Alright. So we we talked about kind of toxic traits, right? The the selfless pneus of a 40 year old man. And then the selfishness of a 20 to 30 year old man. What? What you know, other than age and maturity? What has allowed your current relationships to take on a more healthier? Tone? Okay, level up its its health, right? Like so because we’ve all had trials and tribulations in our current relationships and our past ones that you know, have been in our adulthood. But like, you know,

Herman 48:25
so one interpersonal thing that I think is important is like, the your future vision, right? Like how that person fits into what you see for yourself in the future. Right. I think back to some relationships, and like, Man, those were people that I just never would have seen in the feed, they probably weren’t in,

Tim 48:44
you wouldn’t even looking? I probably wouldn’t have a vision. Right? Right. Like, if

Herman 48:49
you have that vision, like and you can communicate what that is. Yeah. And that person can either do things themselves to to align, and you guys can go down that path together. Or you you know, figure out their goals and like whatever it is, you can make it work for the two of you because I feel like you can see relationships that deviate because because there is no long term vision for certain whether it’s goals achieved, or certain milestones achieved, like sometimes you get so in the day to day, you don’t think about where misaligned you are or how to align for it. 40 what you know you want in the future.

Tim 49:26
Okay, so you’re saying we need to have a brain strategy, not necessarily a roadmap, not necessarily well gonna have ownership.

Herman 49:33
But it’s like, when do you want to retire? How do you want to retire? What do you want to have in the bank? Do you want to have a second house? I mean, like all of those things are everything

Tim 49:41
comes back down to money with this guy. Well, everything in the financial independence

Herman 49:49
hey, look, man, if you see people lose that financial independence, or if you have lost that financial independence, it does become a driving factor. But yes, I’ve gone through all of a retirement and having to rebuild for I’d like a spin on on the right things. But I’m like that rebuilding means you’re starting behind, you got to start all over which is okay. But you have to have a very clear vision and you can’t deviate from. I mean, I don’t love money, but I have to have it for this thing that I want for my family and for my kids.

Tim 50:13
No, I mean, you know, I’m joking. But you’re, it’s typically the first place where your mind always goes, like, retirement was the when you want to retire girl. Okay, we can. Like, even if we’ve never asked each other that question before. Now, a lot of our long term vision does, you know, that is about business and goals, and, you know, and, and all that stuff, but But yeah, that’s, that’s,

Herman 50:42
I mean, it’s, it’s just a part of life. Right? Like, it’s like, you’re going to work. So where does that look? Are you in an industry that’s going to flourish? Or when one’s gonna fail? Like, you know, like,

Tim 50:54
Okay, I got to see the market analysis he did on Kylie, where he decided to pop the question. Yeah.

Herman 51:00
Hey, man, but that was the thing. The first thing she did was go back to school not too far after, you know, like marriage and stuff like that was which was a huge setback, right. But it prompted her propel that

Tim 51:10
she saw the long term investment in us, I am willing to, you know, we’ll do this. And, you know, yeah, you made it work.

Herman 51:16
You watch a person work. And I’m like, Man, her greatest skill sets are never going to be rewarded in that environment, because they don’t pay for that kind of, you know, specific stuff that she’s really good at. Yeah, she went back to school tooled up came out, doubled. And, you know, off to the races, which then changes the night. Yeah, you know, I’m saying like, yeah, yeah, exactly. So you had to level up. Yeah. But then you have to people don’t like it’s like, okay, well take a step back for all these steps forward. But some people don’t see that they’ll see a step back and be like, Oh, this is too hard. I can’t do it. And you didn’t even know that you could handle what came with the burden of whether it’s lack of resources, lack of time, lack of focus on you, because the person needs to study and focus on their goals. But I’m like, that shouldn’t be a thing. That is a conversation that is mutual that you’re on the same page with. And that, you know, it’s gonna be hard.

Tim 52:07
Life plans. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you gotta make them together. Like, you know, I joke that even even and I did not have these conversations. Which is true. I did, because I was talking about because I like, I mean, sorry, I was the ambitious one. Like, that’s just wasn’t her. She did not have any career goals. She wanted to be a wife and a mother since she was four years old. That was her goal. Right. So So I guess, work is way easier. She did not tell me this. Otherwise, I probably would have ran away. Very early in the relationship. She knew she was doing, she chose

Travis 52:50
you.

Tim 52:52
I’m bringing another episode. With him. She was a Amen. That road like I was saying, so like, that wasn’t her thing. It was mine. So it was like communicating. I think so. Or was I running game back to these are my grand visions. I know, I’m sleeping on my friend’s couch. And I don’t have a car because,

Travis 53:15
but believe me, you know, as an international school coming in the future.

Herman 53:18
But we’re just wondering, because we both ended up in really strong relationships, probably dating people where we might have been at our lowest. Absolutely right. And it’s like, man, anybody that can accept this version of me can see the bigger version of me 1000. And it’s funny because we have that conversation like it just crazy. Because who would have dated me at that time, same to you struggling out here trying to find it trying to realign and it’s like, I don’t think people were thinking that we were just coming out of the Great Recession, right? It’s like, but it still didn’t matter. Like, you still felt like a broke, whatever. But it’s like, Hey, man, if you can see take me

Tim 53:56
or leave me. Yeah, I’m going to be something some day.

Herman 54:00
But I think that wisely, they were like, obviously, I mean things.

Tim 54:05
Go ahead invest in this little light skinned guy. A little big asleep on my couch. But ya know, I think that’s that’s interesting. See what what uh, what do you think contributes to your healthy relationship?

Travis 54:21
I think the biggest thing that has changed as well I think goals is pretty good in there. But I think that transparency

Herman 54:28
he stopped managing communications through an HR perspective

Tim 54:32
on HR software.

Herman 54:36
Let me Let me login

Tim 54:39
put that in Microsoft Teams.

Herman 54:42
You put me on a pip today.

Travis 54:45
Put this in the question portal. Baby respond to you in 48 to 72 hours.

Tim 54:54
They communicate through memos.

Travis 54:57
Transcending transparency helps because you know You hold things and then you never really get it out. And so I think that that helps a little bit.

Tim 55:05
Just to his parents, he has like his hardest thing to achieve the entire world.

Travis 55:10
So let me let me say more, but I think not complete. Right, but more letting that person Bureau

Tim 55:16
and opaque color guy, I don’t think you can fully be transparent

Herman 55:19
letting that person be a part of your process and your choices. I think inclusion. Yeah helps. Because especially for like, people that like you’re moving from selfish to needing to make cohesive decisions. And it’s that is a hard transition.

Travis 55:36
Yeah, partnership is probably the biggest thing. That’s good point.

Tim 55:38
Listen to somebody else’s opinion about your life.

Herman 55:41
I mean, kind of right, like, yeah,

Tim 55:43
it’s hard.

Herman 55:45
or wrong, right? Like, yeah, which is weird, because if you’re actually listening their perspective, which could be completely opposite is exactly what you need to hear to weigh. The thing that you haven’t even seen

Tim 55:56
yet. You gotta be opening that shit. Yeah. And the other part of communication like, which is weird to me, especially a black man that grew up in the middle. Yeah, it was stuck between black culture and white America his entire life. Absolutely. We got walls. Yeah. Oh, no moment we need to have.

Travis 56:13
And now the GM.

Herman 56:16
Mac, would you like

Tim 56:18
breakthroughs? Oh, man. I mean, I mean, for real, like, we definitely have walls put up our entire life growing up through these relationships,

Herman 56:27
thinking not being black enough. Like all of the things I mean, honestly, it’s like,

Tim 56:32
gray or not being white enough when it was earlier. And that was the issue. Right?

Herman 56:38
Like you can’t be back in Casey with those little dreads can do a picture we could put up on social media with your

Tim 56:48
white girls. Yeah, I got pictures from every stage. This dude

Herman 56:52
had the shortest hang time. Hey. My man had millimeters straight backs. Oh,

Tim 57:04
my, my, my brother was skilled.

Herman 57:09
Your neighbors in venturi were like, Oh my God. Is that a FUBU? Jersey?

Tim 57:15
Oh, my wedding cornrows. And it’s

Travis 57:18
and it’s brown. What’s happening to him? Yeah, no, it’s, uh, you do have walls, right? And you got to listen to someone’s feedback or you’re not sure understand your complete journey. So that kind of just swooping in and, you know, making an assessment and you don’t, it’s hard to be able to listen to that. And it’s hard to be able to respond to that. Because you respond. The admittedly, you know, so it’s, that’s a tough one, man.

Tim 57:47
Next time on interracial dating party. Can she respect your journey? When they’re so different? Yep. You haven’t packed up more? I mean, like I can, I can push pause, and we can just start writing nothing.

Travis 58:02
There’s nothing to that. I think when you talk about it, it’s not necessarily there’s

Herman 58:08
something Yeah, it’s a huge component. Well, there’s

Travis 58:10
nothing I’m honing in on. Yeah, but that doesn’t mean it’s a problem. It is it is. But it’s not even like, it doesn’t even have to be interracial. Like, it’s just literally not knowing how a person manifested themselves, right, where they, you know, like, not understanding, you know, how, what the thought processes are, and then getting that assessment, you’re like, hold on, you’re wrong. You know, so it’s, it’s more so about just not being intuitive than the race.

Tim 58:38
Back to communication. Yeah. Right. transparency, openness, vulnerability. Vulnerability, from a black man is very hard to get. Yeah. Yeah. At least one that grew up in the 80s. Yep. Maybe not. Nana grew up in the 2000s. They a little more sensitive and in tune with their emotions. Because daddy told him, they loved him.

Travis 59:02
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, that’s true.

Herman 59:04
I mean, that’s that confidence that gets built that allows you to be vulnerable, because you know, like, whatever it is, whatever their answers are, whatever you don’t want to hear like each still good. Like, I’ve never not felt good, because I know my parents did a great job, just building confidence. So I’m never scared to ask tough questions. One, you find out exactly what you need, if it hurts too much. And it’s like, you know, okay, well, I don’t have to, you know,

Tim 59:27
I mean, that’s cool. I mean, I grew up completely different. Like, you know, I spend most of my time only child. Yeah, only child in it. Right. So I didn’t ask any questions.

Herman 59:37
Yeah. But I think it takes maturity to even know what are the right questions, but also, you know, sometimes it’s not the right questions. It’s how you respond to Oh, yeah, great. Like it’s not letting something fester and linger because you hated so much what they said. Yeah, right, for sure. Except for taking it with what it is. But that also comes with how connected you are like do they have intentions? Beyond.

Tim 1:00:00
Right? Yeah. Well, and I think another piece to just being in a healthy relationship is being healthy independently. And, you know, that is something that our relationship, you know, my marriage has been working on over the last four years. And we’ve, you know, back to balance, right, you got to be good and individually to be great together. I think that is so true. And, you know, that’s probably part of the reason why men mature at 40. Because it I mean, it took, it took me 40 years to get to this level of authors authentic confidence, right? It wasn’t just ego, anymore. Like, it’s actual confidence. Like, because I’ve achieved these things in life, I’ve bought my head learn these lessons. And so now I’ve evolved to this point where we can work independently and together. And it you know, it took wifey a minute to get there, right, because if I go back to what she wanted to be when she when she grew up, fucking servant. Right. She wanted to serve others, mother and, and a wife. And so it, it took that was her biggest challenge was thinking about herself first. So complete, Yin and Yang here, right, the most selfless person, you know, helping me mature over the last 1516 years. And now I just say my wife raised me, I think I just said my wife is in that she can go raise her.

Herman 1:01:38
If she’s not helping you go down a pet because I’m like, even that is a path doesn’t mean that like, if that is a goal that she still wants, well, maybe that pathway is being supportive or building her own business to help amplify how quickly you can get there to where she can back down. Not have to work or not that parenting isn’t work. But I’m like, that can be built into a plan. It’s just, you know, understand that you got to do what you got to do to get there.

Tim 1:02:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, that’s that’s that’s how it panned out for sure. Yeah.

Herman 1:02:07
I’m like, because I it’s weird because some people are like, a stay at home mom isn’t necessarily doesn’t necessarily have to be a stay at home mom forever. Right. Like

Tim 1:02:16
a stay at home. Mom, the stay at home mom has evolved. Oh, 100% stay at home moms running businesses? Absolutely. You don’t I’m saying like in? I mean, yeah, that’s a whole that’s,

Herman 1:02:31
that’s that’s a great recession. But I’m just a great conversation. I feel like that,

Tim 1:02:36
but I know even wants to have. She may or may not have told me that two weeks ago,

Herman 1:02:40
no. But then it’s like, if you want to do that, then I need to make $300,000 a year and I’m not going to go be a doctor or an attorney. Or even if I was to I’m not going to be the premier one. I just just enough to make a certain amount of base salary. But it’s like, okay, well, then how am I going

Travis 1:02:57
to get there, he knows that. That’s why she went back to school.

Herman 1:03:00
Which could also be something where I’m certain now she’s feeling like, man, it would be nice to not have to do or manage all of the stress behind these heavier jobs. And I’m like, Cool. Well, just, you know, send business my way and I’ll take it from there. That’s interesting. Yeah,

Tim 1:03:23
that might be another episode to unpack. I mean, but no, I think that Alright, so now that we are you know, we’re at this this midlife. It’s not a crisis. It is a excellent. Alright, so

Travis 1:03:44
yeah, that’s a t shirt.

Tim 1:03:45
I mean, yeah, for sure. Right, that I’ll do like that one soon. Like, I’m so so. Alright, so we’re at this this level of midlife excellence. I am curious to the Watson’s growth plan. Where are the Watson’s Carly and Herman independently and together in five years, in 10 years, what that looks like, and you don’t have to answer that now. Because we’re at time, but I would love to impact that

Herman 1:04:14
we can. Because I actually do have a vision. Do you?

Tim 1:04:18
Lightweight and then you’re on the same page of this vision?

Herman 1:04:20
Yeah, I think so. But it’s just like, be patient. Yeah.

Tim 1:04:25
And then we’ll do an episode behind your back with that. That’s what he said.

Herman 1:04:34
Well, he is failing.

Tim 1:04:36
That will probably be the funniest fucking episode. I’ll

Herman 1:04:38
do it. Do it.

Tim 1:04:41
We gotta get her on the pod though.

Herman 1:04:42
Do it man. Whatever, man. Just don’t have her like try to stay on and beat cracking jokes and shit like that. And then I’m at the house with the kid.

Tim 1:04:49
It’s gonna be all pre production. We’ve

Herman 1:04:54
had this happen.

Tim 1:04:56
Yeah, you just agreed to it. Done it. Nate law. Get up on schedule, schedule. All right, well, I can say that, you know, it feels pretty good to, you know, really feel and believe and say out loud that I’m very happy with my relationship. We’re in a very balanced, you know, part place in this journey. And I’m excited to talk about the vision of our future of, you know, your guys’s relationships future, like how you how that will evolve? Because this is kind of 40s kind of like, all right, you get a chance to stop, assess. Set those new goals. Right. Yeah. Because you have this new perspective on life. I mean, I definitely do. It feels like the, the vision the path is a lot more clear. Right, you know, through the lessons that we’ve learned and the things that we know now or and the stuff that we know, we don’t know, Robin,

Herman 1:06:01
and I think it’s that we’re like, also it amplifies, right. So I’m like, four years ago, I could not have imagined how quickly shit would have ramped up over the past two or three to maybe two years. Like, it was just like, hyper, but I made a lot of changes, you know, in that time, and I was pretty hyper focused on you know, certain things, stability, things like that, which now I’m like, Okay, well, now we can expand this vision and things that had been brought up maybe now. They will also pass. Yeah,

Tim 1:06:29
yeah. Love it. Love it. Let’s do it. Let’s get it

 

Tim 00:00
All right, so what are we talking about?

Herman 00:02
So, recently, I’ve been thinking about something that has been challenging my belief system. And it’s, I don’t know. So let me just start with it’s weird having your beliefs like kind of fall away, right? So in the wake of the Trump raids, right, like, they went to mar Lago and took the documents, and there’s a whole bunch of people that are like, that was not the right thing to do. Or don’t treat him like that, or whatever that shit is from, like, the aftermath of of hurting him in this way with people that believe he’s being abused, ready to die. They’ve gone to these field offices, like multiple people have died. And every time I see that, right, like their

Tim 00:51
way where the I’m not following hold on the story, so you might have to

Herman 00:56
feel so sorry, people were people were mad that the FBI raided Mar Lago, right? Because He still owes them in the aftermath of that you had a person run up in the FBI field office, and I think Cincinnati and tried to shoot people, they chased him out and killed him. And I think the same thing happened in two other places. So you’re talking about Trump’s supporters that believe his story so much, they have so much belief that he is right, and they are wrong, that they’re willing to die for that shit. And when I see that all I can think of, and you’ll get this because you watch Game of Thrones is how the White Walkers raised their hands and would basically throw humans it, you know? Yeah. And the other side to take them over.

Travis 01:35
Have you not had somebody you believed in so much? But as

Tim 01:38
you would die for him?

Herman 01:40
Not I mean,

Tim 01:41
I mean, we have as a receiver over 97. I’m just saying

Herman 01:45
like, short family, right, like family, but I’m not gonna do any politician under any circumstances. I just cannot, I cannot fathom. And so then it made me think about like, if you can believe in him that much, and all that he’s done whatever, Love him or hate him, like when I see people willing to die for something that I deem is false. My belief says he’s lying. Yeah. And you’re following something that you just died for something that’s not even real. It breaks my faith in my belief in I don’t know

Tim 02:15
everything.

Herman 02:16
Not everything. But I just didn’t I feel confused as to like, man, what if I shouldn’t be believing in the things I believe in to that extent? And I don’t think there are many things that I believe in that deeply.

Travis 02:29
Do you normally let outliers affect your beliefs? I

Herman 02:32
don’t think it’s an outlier when it’s starting to become a norm. Like there’s an uptick in this behavior. There.

Tim 02:37
Very few amount of people. Well, when you look at January 6, yeah, I’m like, they

Herman 02:42
storm the capital, like that outcome could have been different. And it’s a trend like I don’t look at everything. Like, it didn’t happen today, or it did happen today. But if the trend Yeah, it’s like, alright, well, more and more of this. Yeah.

Tim 02:53
No harm and crunching the numbers. Yeah,

Herman 02:55
I’m like, That’s the she’s been out of all superforecast. But I’m like, he’s been out of office for two years talking about the election was stolen, it was like less. I know, right? And you still have people behaving in this way based off of their belief. And I’m like, Doug, how many things do you guys believe in that? You’re just absolute in? Because for me, I’m like, if I believe in something too strong, absolutely. Me. That is not what we should be doing.

Tim 03:21
Absolut is a very good place to start. Because I think there’s going to be a very short list, we’re talking

Travis 03:26
about the vodka.

Tim 03:29
Maybe might be longer than but I mean, I get that because I follow Trevor Noah on Instagram. And on the show. They are always pulling out these Trumpsters that like their first, you know, their rallies or whatever. Yeah. And they are. I mean, there’s some wackos. But to your point, they’re outliers. I think, you know, like, believing in just all sorts of craziness. Yeah. But but to your but to your point, Herm. And I’m pointing at people in a pocket. The right thing to do, but I think you’re right, like, what do you what do you do? I mean, I don’t have any I can’t think of anything that I believe in that I would die for other than family. And you need another family.

Herman 04:17
So yeah, I mean, honestly, like, I can’t think for of somebody that would not even probably let you in their home to use the bathroom who you voted for. Right? Like, I don’t know Donald Trump personally, and I’m not saying anything, but I’m like, he’s rich. He lives out here. And you have some dude, that’s so frustrated with ya worry, then

Travis 04:34
I guess this is where we differ. I don’t let insanity I mean, dictate my sanity. To me that is crazy. Like, and I think that that is a very loud minority. So it just doesn’t affect me. I just look at them like damn, they’re casualties of their war. Well, alright. So bad.

Tim 04:52
That’s the outlier. To sacrifice your life. But if you take a step down, you’re more focused on you know, But at the capital, that’s a step down. They didn’t plan on dying or sacrificing their life. They just wanted to, you know, or sir make some hoopla

Herman 05:07
surfing Jay Wilson’s is right. Like, it’s

Travis 05:09
not. It’s not. It’s not the first ride I’ve seen. It’s just the first hit right of that magnitude. So it’s the first it’s the Halsey is it’s the most government. Yeah,

Herman 05:19
it was only ballsy because they believed that they were going to win they believe they were gonna we’re gonna overthrow the government.

Tim 05:26
Yes, that was crushed.

Herman 05:28
I had the president

Tim 05:29
telling voters I guess

Travis 05:31
that that’s the only minor thing is they probably did believe they were going to win versus another riot that or other rights that we’ve seen where they don’t give a fuck if they lose. But I think that once again, I think they would detect January 6 differently. Now, I think that sometimes you got to put people

Herman 05:47
go harder. Exactly. I’m like it would be more violent because that’s in so this has been people die. But this goes back to my original when that it goes back to my original thing. I’m not gonna want the belief in a falsehood is not diminishing, it is only growing. And the people that are in office, political office, they’re not doing things to move away from the big lie. They’re getting people out list and you just lost so there’s, there’s a new, like Trump backed person going to be in the Senate from Wyoming and basically they’re getting any defect or anybody that voted against Trump or for his impeachment, they’re gonna be gone and more Trump and he says yeah, like that belief system is going to be expanding within our government and that’s the thing that I’m you’re put that face on but I’m like,

Travis 06:32
Yeah, I put the face on because I just know that regardless of the circumstances, people are just going to continue to believe in falsehoods and it’s not going to change

Herman 06:42
it but that is the thing so from a personal standpoint, I’m like I’m certain that there’s falsehood that you believe in and I believe in and you believe in it just watching them act like I would never act like that but it does make me challenge like where am I believe Oh

Tim 06:56
yeah, I have a place to go

Travis 06:58
I believe that Bill Cosby R. Kelly did it I believe R. Kelly didn’t hog did it

Tim 07:15
I don’t need the specifics but I’m sure he’s guilty of

Travis 07:18
guilty of something. He didn’t nobody

Herman 07:21
he gives you

Tim 07:22
well you say that public plea Well, I guess you did.

Travis 07:25
Just did he did nocturnal buddy.

Tim 07:27
Are you willing to die for that after that?

Travis 07:32
Yeah, no with Robert.

Herman 07:34
Robert heavier back bro when you give that testimony in a court of

Travis 07:37
law Robert need to watch his episode otherwise somebody’s gonna be filling out his

Herman 07:42
dogs. Yeah, damn, bro. Man.

Tim 07:49
I’d say I had a texture the other day. I was uh, I was at a wedding reception and the playlist was on point. Oh, my God brother. Russell Williams shout out man or girl relations do man I was in such a vibe at this wedding and wedding reception like he had like the r&b like old school mix with some new school mixed with some KC you know got a local rap is Wixom national but like it was like the whole spectrum and you know I’m I’m a

Travis 08:22
combination is able to move in a way you have moved in. Yeah, and I feel you

Tim 08:26
it only got weird when our Kelly started playing when we was eating dinner. Like it’s different. What it was like, I just naturally started singing the words I’m like, Wait, is this our Kelly? Yeah, I haven’t heard I Killian years.

Travis 08:41
And it wouldn’t stop in the name of love.

Tim 08:43
It was not it was not it was it was very

Travis 08:47
sensual. It’s probably TP too.

Tim 08:49
But anyway, yeah. So to your point Herme like well, to your point t like you said there will always be falsehoods right?

Herman 09:01
Since the My point is what

Tim 09:03
what falsehoods Do we believe in?

Travis 09:06
The Bible?

Herman 09:08
And so that’s where I was so kind of my thing was every time I see that it pushes me further and further away from

Tim 09:15
what you really know to be true. Yeah. So funny. Also story about the Mexico trip. So my my brother got married in Mexico right so I’m down there well, mom’s and my auntie my great aunt. And my great hot Black don’t crack she looks like the same age as my mom or bro right? So we just saw we kick it into Mexico. And my grandma she says you know Sunday devotional text messages to all the family you know, some scriptures some inspirational how it relates to our life, and it’s it’s a really good kind of reset to the week Right? Like, alright, we know things are crazy. Check it. This is what you should be focused on. God loves you. You No, everything is written all that stuff. blase, blase blah that we get from the Bible. So, so we’re driving to East LA Morehead is, which is about an hour trip from you hear that from?

Travis 10:15
Boy oh, let’s roll them ours. So I’m sorry.

Tim 10:25
So, we’re driving. So I put on the pie, right? I put on Roe versus Wade, knowing that I have a very cushioned black woman in the backseat. And I got my mom who’s like, you know, I mean, I’m, I’m like my mom, she raised me, right. So. So we were kind of lightweight, listening and talking. And then T comes on and says, you want to talk about a real conspiracy? about the Bible. And I looked in the rearview mirror.

Herman 10:55
Bro, she was passed out, fell out.

Travis 10:58
Well, it clutched her purse. So

Tim 11:00
I think she actually missed it all down. So I paused it. Yeah. And I was like, you might have heard what he just said. So I reiterated, and then we started talking about it, bring it back, bring it back, leak it. I just thought this is a reason why I put the pot on. It’s a good alternative perspective, the listener that we don’t Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we started talking about, I went on my spiel about how the Bible was created, and all these 1000s of different translations, and they pick these couple of few blah, blah, and all the all around the world, like all these multiple religions, and you know, stuff that we talk about all the time. And, you know, she picked up on kind of the King James version versus the new, whatever. NLV, or I don’t know, I don’t remember. But, but she started talking about the differences between those. And I was like, alright, that makes sense. Because I always wondered that as a kid, like, why am I reading scripture different than the pastor or whoever’s guest speaking whatever. But, um, but so, so then we started talking about, like, the other religions. And, and we came to the same conclusion, like, there are like these ground rules of life. That trends, late to all religions, right. It’s like, Thou shalt not kill, right? Don’t lie, like, be a good person, you know, that type of stuff. Yeah. Which I’m 1,000% on board, right. Yeah. And so we just got into that dialogue, which I thought was first, it was awesome. I was like, this is a pocket

Herman 12:38
food thrown in your face.

Tim 12:41
But no, but But I guess the point of the story is just like, getting that other perspective, and talking about the Bible, right, and how it’s, it is such a driving force in the opposition of what I think to be the direction that the country should be moving in. But also, it’s a driving force in my side, right, like the foundational things that you should believe in, but it’s like the opposition takes it like to another level like, oh, well, you know, so that we talked about the abortion. Yeah,

Herman 13:20
but so the craziest part about the Bible is that with the Bible, I don’t know if this is a fact, but I’m just gonna say it that nobody is living 100% based around what the Bible says, Even if that is your sole purpose. There are things in the Bible that you’re just not going to do. You’re not gonna see a dude up in the mountain. We’re not gonna go stone your child for talking back. Like, you know, like, there are things

Tim 13:41
there, too. But there are people out here that will do that shit. Herm.

Herman 13:45
I’m not saying I will say this, but I’m just saying

Tim 13:48
the same old folk is that just shot up? X, Y and Z? Yeah,

Herman 13:52
I mean, people are super against abortion have blown up abortion clinics. But that is a belief in us in like in the system and the biblical in a in a in a spiritual sense, but I think that people that believe in Trump’s lie, I mean, all he has to say one thing and they’re willing to give their lives or do something that’s gonna land you in jail. All he has to do is say, somebody was mean to me, and people are ready to die. The Bible hadn’t been like that since the fucking crusades. And I just don’t know who is more powerful than a man who can say they did me wrong, you know what to do. So now that breaks my belief and a lot of are

Travis 14:34
the he is the most single most most powerful individual in America, hands down unequivocally. And the reason why is because people he is a, a lifeline for a certain type of belief, and people are grasping it but that belief

Herman 14:52
is now life or death, right? Like it’s, if you’re with me, you’re with me, and we’re doing this together. If you’re against me, you’re the opposite. chin. And

Travis 15:01
I don’t know if it’s quite David Koresh. But I think, but I think that it’s definitely I mean, there’s a strong passion behind it, but he’s going to have some radical, radical people who subscribe to his theories. The thing is, is he’s just so polarizing. So for as many people are love, love them. There’s an love. There’s a couple of votes more who hate him.

Herman 15:24
Yeah, but if you control the system, if everything is fake, then why even participate? Right, like as

Travis 15:32
it’s not fake, it’s an augmented reality.

Herman 15:35
I watched Liz Cheney lose, and I listened to her concession speech. And she lost because she stood by her truth, which was the election wasn’t stolen. I knew that the outcome would be me losing by standing by that and the person that went with the live part one, she’s out of a job.

Travis 15:54
You can’t I mean, I mean, she’ll be okay. It’s all Yeah, it’s not about her, though. It’s, it’s about her civic duty and the relevance ability she held within one of the non government.

Tim 16:04
I mean, it’s, it’s about I think it’s about the American people. Right? And the fact that we can’t get behind her to support the truths

Travis 16:17
now because she’s from what state Harmon Wyoming, Wyoming, what kind of state is Wyoming? Right? Yeah, we’re

Tim 16:25
going for Well, but, but that’s what I’m saying. Even in a red state, she can’t they can’t get behind her. Because she’s not telling lies. Right. Like, that’s what this is about. That’s about this

Herman 16:39
fall legitimately profit, right? We’re watching lies when we’re watching lies, change the entire fabric and makeup of our country of the world. And if you don’t believe that you’re not paying attention,

Travis 16:49
oh, I believe that lies when lies have always won. The bigger lies are winning. I mean, but yeah, do you see through this is it’s it’s, it’s just on steroids now. And so,

Tim 17:03
I mean, it’s the same out in the open. Dude, it’s,

Travis 17:05
it’s the same thing we’ve said about the media. You know, right now, people are like Eminem and Rihanna. And they love the way you lie. Like it is what they are gravitating towards. And it’s just, you know, who’s gonna lie to me and tell me what I want to hear when I want to believe. But yeah, man, it’s it’s really not new. It’s just manifesting growing. The question you’re asking, I think that you’re getting to is, you know, either Hey, how do we stop or curb this? And is there any hope for us to be able to stop and curb

Herman 17:31
that, like, I don’t want to be negative more than like, I wonder if people are if if the things that people are seeing, and to me, they’re crazy, because I just don’t believe in anything that I’m like, life or death family. That’s it. You know, I might help people, but I’m like, how many things on a day to day basis are people making choices and decision future decisions on based around falsehoods are based around the way some things will be in the future? Right? Like, I do that every day? What are you going to invest in? You know, what career should you take? Well, that’s you might not be heard, because if people believe that, we’ll just say climate change, right? Like, climate change isn’t happening. So we’re not going to have the jobs that are going to, you know, affect reducing climate change. That might be a pathway for a lot of people, but they’re like, No, I’m gonna stay going towards coal. And like, you’re talking about life changing decisions and poor outcomes and future unemployment just based around not knowing what is real.

Tim 18:23
Who was I talking to about climate change? You remember, man, I’m over 40, bro, the band that was away, but we talked about so in the last episode, Roe versus Wade, right? We talked about how the decision happened like 50 years ago, 40 years ago, whatever. And how, right at that decision, they were already making, preparing to overturn it right. So fast forward to now. It’s finally done. And the rest of their plan is in motion. Whether that plan is we do not know. Yes, I’m watching the Handmaiden for all the ladies out there. But, but like, so. So that happened a long time ago. And I was talking to somebody. Ah, sorry, if you’re listening. I give you all the credit. But they mentioned like, climate change versus global warming. Yeah. That is a slight nuance that the Republican Party made, so that they could debunk it. Right. Right. Because global warming sounds like doom and gloom shits wrong. Climate change, oh, that’s not happening. But it was but it’s just it was a very strategic move that was made in the boardroom, not like the other that was a that is next door. Over time, they came to that conclusion and that happens in industry after industry, the thought leaders in that industry, you know, they they put their heads together and they leave it just like the NFL.

Travis 20:00
exactly what made you rich? I was just gonna end up Brandon. Well, it’s it’s putting a spin. Yep. Or putting, yeah, putting a spin. I mean, those keep it very simple. On a situation that’s happening, it’s the same thing that’s made. Tim so incredibly, and

Herman 20:15
it’s also the thing that makes it the thing that makes the opposition turn his mic off. is the thing that makes the opposition seem fake, right. So when talking about climate change, I’m like, well, just because last year, or this year is hotter than last year. And this is a little trend, it’s like, it takes a decade to you know, over a decade to see like an actual pattern. And it’s like, well, they’re talking about the Earth is gonna be on fire next month, right? You know, and then it doesn’t happen.

Tim 20:42
Yeah, if you don’t see it, right, you don’t believe it. But you can take your house to Mexico in the Yucatan Peninsula, and see that every fucking Beach is covered in Saragosa, which is a national alert, like they’re on high alert, because Sargassum seaweed basically, and it is infiltrated the entire coast of Mexico on the wet on the eastern side. Oh, so beaches, like resorts, right, if you go to a resort, they have their own beach, like, they’ve got to have manpower and machines to clear this stuff off so that it doesn’t smell like shit. And then people can actually get in the water. And those beaches are few and far between, you gotta go to a separate island, just to get some beach that you can walk through that shit and go in between your toes and sand and water. Like it’s a national crisis over there. Why because the oceans are getting warmer. Saragosa is fucking multiplying and is they’ve they’ve, they’ve got the National Guard or the Mexican army, or navy, whoever in the ocean building barriers so that this does not hit the beaches that are not so they can build walls mess up the tourism industry. They’re just underway. So like, it’s fucking real. But if you don’t see it, or don’t make the connection, then you don’t have to believe it.

Herman 22:09
And the choice giving people the choice to believe in the truth or not, is a crazy place that we are in. Right. And I you know, I started this episode off with that story. But I’m like, it makes me think about other things. Like, I used to think that every company was just about making profits. And then I worked at one in Overland Park. And I’m like, not every company’s gonna know. Right? So my hard work. I’m like, Oh, that’s not what they wanted. Right? Like you wanted a market failure. And I’m like, I did not even know that was a thing. Right? Every good company wants to make money, right? But I’m like, so then there’s also bad companies. And you know, but I guess in my mind, I’m like, anybody that looks successful. You think they’re doing the right thing, because you’re just trying to get more customers

Tim 22:49
to pay for services. They’re not they’re not playing by the same rules. They’re not working from the same textbooks or using the same formulas that we think or that we that we know or think we know, is commonplace.

Herman 23:04
Yeah. But to me know, that no issue that would have happened in a work like it’s not a life or death belief, right? Like if they were trying to do something nefarious, I just don’t have to work there. Right. Like, that’s not a hard thing. But I’m like, if I believed and, you know, something, so let’s do that. Like,

Tim 23:20
I mean, showing up at this customer’s door, dude, I just paid his bill. You know, we didn’t do these services, but that’s okay. You better pay it anyway. Right? Yeah, no, that’s inside issue. We’re not going to talk unpack on that. Oh, man,

Herman 23:34
I bet people are gonna, they’re gonna want to know.

Tim 23:38
Any asked me privately, right. All right. So. So there’s a lot of lies. And people are just committing to these lies, believing them. To the extreme. There’s people like us who may have fallen victim to some good marketing, as you said, to hear some good advertising some spin a spin job, right. Like, I think everything has been Oh, in this conversation, man, I really got to remember who I was talking to. We talked about how Fox News was originally pitched to be a propaganda machine. And in that pitch, obviously, it was didn’t go well. But that was like 40 years ago. And you look at Fox News Now. What is it? Yeah, that’s that’s exactly what it is. Like, I turn that shit on. And it blows my mind. And then you see like the clips. And I love the daily show clips and it’s like this, you know, what’s the what’s the blonde hair? Do? Anybody know?

Herman 24:50
I talk about Jordan Klebold. That’s on his show. That does.

Tim 24:53
I don’t I don’t know their names, but you will see him like contradict like, oh, yeah, last year and This year, he’s saying talking about the exact same thing, but totally different perspective and just all in like dying for the message. And that these, these are those people that are dying fallen on their sword for this lie.

Herman 25:15
And I just don’t believe to be true. Right? And they lie. And I think that that’s what is like what I find most terrifying, right is I’m like, man, okay, so the things that you say become a norm, right? So I’m like, who believes that elections are free and fair, right? Like, not a lot of people, or maybe half of the people or whatever that is, you have people that are never going to believe that somebody lost that, that they don’t like, right? Like, if if their person that they’re voting for loses, then it’s fake. If their person wins, they can still say it’s fake. It just to me, I’m like, Oh, shit, that’s how you lose democracy at some level. Like, I’m not saying that we’re going to lose democracy. But it seems like we’re pretty, bro. It’s going away pretty close. And then I’m like, Well, what is going to be the new belief you will? Like, I guess my

Tim 26:05
enemy. I believe it’s going to be a nation of one team of me. As co Jenkins eight how many people in America? 330 100 million me’s. That’s that’s what it’s going to be.

Travis 26:19
We’re real quick. I don’t know what it’s gonna be. But wasn’t here. We were talking about this where the ideal party system should be actually for parties instead of two.

Herman 26:29
Well, we were I mean, I personally thought that an independent would have one by now just based off of Democrats can’t get it together. Conservatives are kind of split,

Travis 26:39
it just takes a lot of energy, you know, so independent only has so much energy to be able to give to it. When I say energy, of course, I’m talking resources, money, financial backing. Yeah. But you know, you have a conservative like, just a couple of weeks ago, Ted Cruz was here in Missouri, making his rounds, and he was teaming up with other conservatives to go have these these little rallies at hole in the wall bars, that he can schedule on last minute notice, you know, so Well, once again, it’s just a symbol of the energy he like he has somebody tobacco and put them out there, when you’re independent, you truly are standing on your own, and you’re standing on your own beliefs. And then it’s hard to get somebody to subscribe to that when it’s independent or independent of the party loyalty that has been embedded in us. So

Herman 27:26
I think that maybe that’s the thing that I struggle with. So when I believe in something, I’m always going to look at the opposing side. But you know, what I believe? Why do I believe that? What is the opposition say? What are the numbers say? And then the fear is that now people are just being told something, and then you can act on it. And if you’re told the opposition, first of all, you don’t see it, you don’t want to see it, you don’t care. And I’m like, Damn, dude, like, how can we even have productive, we can’t have a productive way the algorithm works, right? So I’m like, we can have productive conversations, you’re only gonna get deeper and deeper into whatever you believe. And this is left, right, it doesn’t matter what it is, you’re gonna just kind of, and I’m like, man, if we lose our agility as thinkers, communicators, if we lose that in our society like, that is I don’t want to live in a society where somebody doesn’t oppose me, right? Like, I want to argue not for the sake of argument sake, but to learn. Like,

Travis 28:23
nobody wants to argue

Tim 28:24
that’s a great point. But um, like I do, I mean, that’s why we have a podcast we’d love. Oh, man,

Travis 28:29
that’s not what I mean, of course, that I mean, people when they want to art when they’re engaged in argument, they’re always trying to hit you.

Tim 28:35
They still want to win.

Herman 28:38
Win on your team, if I’m wrong, and I it is absolute, the IMT that was wrong.

Travis 28:44
There’s so much information that we’re discerning differently, that we, we can’t agree to disagree. You all might be able to agree to disagree. But what’s reality in America is is if I disagree, you’re dumb. Yeah, no, you’re dumb. Like, I can’t believe that person. You know, I can’t believe they think like that. Sometimes we even disassociate ourselves because it’s so passionate right now.

Tim 29:09
Yeah, I mean, that’s true. So again, I’m not a political person. I say this on every episode, but we plan to size these

Herman 29:17
up, like I hate I had to start with politicization, but like it just fed so much of like,

Travis 29:21
yeah, it’s 30 minutes is politically

Tim 29:23
so i So recently, Biden’s had some wins. Right. And I think I think they’re trying to in the 10 minutes I listen to NPR this last month. I think maybe they’re trying to turn the tide right and start to maybe come out and like boost these things and do the put the PR machine together. I don’t know but the the what’s the million dollar bill that

Herman 29:50
he’s passed? Like? Yeah, the thing that’s gonna and they branded

Tim 29:53
it like something like low key like the semi get back to America after some shit like

Herman 29:59
that. We don’t know what the name of it is, and it’s like huge land we’re gonna get. Right. Right. Yeah.

Tim 30:04
It’s what it’s like. It’s like 600 million or like 10 years or something like that. Right, like, but it’s a win, and it’s a bipartisan win. Right. So there is still some of this stuff going on. We’re still it’s crossing the aisle, you know, as they say, but it’s it. Is it going to continue? Is it enough? Or will we not? Will we just continue to be divided?

Travis 30:27
I don’t think it’s not enough. We’re going to continue to be divided the problem with the Biden administration, as I love the fact that he’s gotten wins, thank you for telling me because I really did not know. But that’s my problem. Right? Then first impressions are a mother. So everybody’s gonna hold him accountable to his first year and a half, and office but I am that means he’s gonna have to work tirelessly to continue to turn the tide, and that’s a step in the right direction. It’s gonna he’s gonna have to pile several winds. And we really, he’s in his biggest wind could be, you know, something’s found in Mar a Lago that would help the cause what it is, I don’t know if it would, it would get a huge monkey off his back as long is Trump is looming in the shadows. As 2024 approaches, that’s a problem. But

Herman 31:20
he’s louder in the shadows, right.

Tim 31:23
That his own social media platform, right,

Herman 31:25
which is also full of, I’m not on it, so I’m not gonna speak on it. But

Travis 31:29
I don’t know. I don’t think he’s louder right now. But I do think he’s a problem. And he’s, he’s a he’s a real threat to, to reemerge. And the fact of the matter is, even the Republican Party has issues with him. But the structure but like you said, we talked about his influence and how strong his influence they are

Herman 31:50
falling in line. They’re going to say a crusade you got early said Ted Cruz, your wife is ugly. And he said, man, don’t you be talking about my wife like that? But yeah, I’ll do whatever you want me to do later on? President? Yeah, dog him?

Travis 32:04
Yeah. He’s like Ted Cruz. Democrat real quick. Ted Cruz. Your wife looks like she got hit by a bus.

Tim 32:10
He didn’t say that. He’s like, he called

Herman 32:12
him a slip sniffling coward. He’s like,

Travis 32:14
America for a personality.

Tim 32:17
Like your boss. Yeah, get rid of her real quick.

Herman 32:21
Yeah, it’s just wild man. I just, I just just not which I

Travis 32:25
don’t know what his wife looks like. So I’m not recommending? Yeah. Hey, I think I didn’t go to Ted Cruz’s rally and Lee’s Summit at TIFF and Jays.

Herman 32:35
Is that where he headed? Yeah. Oh, man. That place used to be

Travis 32:39
when it was patio patio Quigley’s? We used to shut that mug down. Oh, is that where that

Herman 32:43
was? Yeah, basement.

Travis 32:47
Yeah, so Ted, we was rocking that house way before you work.

Tim 32:52
So So Trump, he’s a divisive topic for me because I was a I was a Trump fan before the election. And even up until the election started, I was Team Trump, and the fact that he challenged the status quo and the systems that have been built and failed us currently. And he presented new ideas, right new way of thinking, etc, etc. And this was before I knew how how polarizing he was going to get right before the primaries before everything when he first started, you know, saying he was running, I was like, Oh, that’s cool.

Herman 33:38
Like, sure party, another candidate, whatever.

Tim 33:41
But, and, and I, you know, and I still to this day, still support out of the box thinking new solutions, you know, something that is not being done now, or it’s not the mainstream I, I always welcome those ideas. But it’s like when I feel like he’s gone too far. And he can’t turn

Herman 34:03
those when those ideas go to a point of like a look, we’re going to overthrow the whole system, and it’s going to be my system. That’s crazy. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, if anybody talks long enough union meetings to write it if anybody talks long enough, you’re gonna find something to agree with. So like one of his things was getting campaign finance reform, right and term limits. Two things. I’m like, hell yeah. Yeah. He did a lot he did not do either one of those, you know, I’m saying so it’s like, even when

Travis 34:27
you want to get rid of term limits when you’re in power. Yeah, term,

Herman 34:31
term limits.

Travis 34:32
It makes loss so he wanted to make term that was right. There are term limits now. Yeah, he wanted to

Tim 34:37
he wasn’t expanding, expanding them. Right. So what happened with those documents though? With Hillary though? That shit is fucking hilarious. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. Because he changed the legislation

Herman 34:48
to make the penalties. The fucking job.

Travis 34:52
Ain’t no fun when the rabbit got the gun.

Herman 34:56
Yeah, but you know, I think it’s less about him and more back About what polarizing people say, and how people interact with that, like we think about that from a marketing standpoint, and from an engagement standpoint, but when the engagement crosses a line, and when people no longer know what is up or down, or truth or not, it’s just it’s not like we’ve, it’s not like this is new. I just think it’s new as far as it’s still unwavering. There’s all this evidence that maybe that could be false. It’s like, Nope, I don’t I don’t accept that. But I’m like, it’s no different than like, if you told a Christian person that something about the Bible wasn’t true, they would, but they wouldn’t die for it on the spot. They wouldn’t plan and plot in.

Tim 35:43
I mean, there have been wars fought over the Bible.

Herman 35:46
Yeah. But I mean, yeah, that’s what I said the crusades like people were 100%. But today, like live

Tim 35:51
for us. Oh, okay. Right.

Travis 35:54
I’m gonna know, charisma is what it comes down to, comes down to a certain Genesee quoi of leadership that, you know, I think that you, I mean, anything said with a certain level of charisma will get some gains some traction. This person just happens to be a politician. And when I say charisma, you know, a lot of people think that it comes with is smooth or as eloquent. And, you know, it’s captivating. Well, Trump is captivating. It’s not smooth, and it’s not eloquent. But he’s speaking to him. He’s speaking to people who didn’t truly feel heard. And then he’s also gathered people who have similar interest. So I got people who have similar interests, and I got people who, who didn’t feel like they had been heard and represented from a political standpoint, bring them on the same team, bring them together. You know, that’s a cold, cold front and a warm friend. You bring those together, you got a tornado next door.

Herman 36:45
So are we about to see the perfect storm? Because I think that’s the question. I think it’s an imperfect storm. Well, it’s gonna be an imperfect storm, but um, like, so Trump. He’s He’s under a lot of investigations for a lot of various things super dribble, or like, you know, nobody is above the law. So if he is found criminally guilty, I just don’t think he goes to jail.

Travis 37:08
I just don’t think so. No jail peoples who say that nobody’s above the law. I firmly believe they’re above the law.

Herman 37:17
I don’t know. Do you think that he’s gonna go to jail under any circumstances?

Travis 37:20
Oh, no. Hell no. I don’t think jail. No.

Herman 37:24
And if he were on, what do you think would happen? Right? Like it? If he were to go to jail? I don’t think that presidents

Travis 37:30
don’t go to jail. They go on vacation.

Tim 37:34
I mean, that would be that would be a shitstain. On the American history. Correct? Right. Yeah. You could not wipe off presidents don’t go to jail. That’s a skid mark. Yeah, throw them away.

Travis 37:48
So for those years don’t count. I wished that they would take him to jail. And I wish they would throw away the key. But I don’t think so. But if he were and what does that say? I wonder if he would like prep, like Will Ferrell and get

Tim 38:07
I mean, if anything happens, it’s not going to be actual time and it’s going to be financial or house arrest or some bullshit. Obviously.

Travis 38:17
It would, it would be something to accomplish the goal of making sure he could not run for president in 2020. That

Herman 38:22
would be Aw, that would be the only thing but I just feel like there would be another person just like him to there’s

Tim 38:29
there’s tons of right I mean, 49% the country? Yeah. It’s the same fucking thing so that he ain’t got

Travis 38:37
a style that you can rinse and repeat. Yeah, it does not work. Yeah, no more for everybody. And there’s a lot of, you know, pseudo copycats, people who got down with some of his initiatives and stuff like that. But I think over time, if he gets out the picture, the initiatives won’t go away. Like people will truly believe this shit, like you’re saying, so they’ll keep getting brought to the forefront from a conservative standpoint, but, you know, whether there’ll be another Trump nah, those don’t grow on trees. I think that that is a style that’s worked for him and he’s been lucrative of and people will just see that as a carbon copy. They won’t see it as a reminder, they’ll see it as an invitation. But the fact

Tim 39:16
that Roe versus Wade was overturned after he was president, but it was says that there will be more Trump’s to come. Oh, yeah, like worse, worse than Donald Trump.

Travis 39:29
This is residue from his presidency, right? Because he had the opportunity and then

Tim 39:33
with a focus on going away, so it’s only going to get worse. Yeah.

Travis 39:37
Last week and get Clarence Thomas off the pain. How can we do that man Tommy, send a white woman by the time by the Supreme Court see is

Tim 39:47
this is a nanny cam. Oh, get it done.

Travis 39:50
See if you’ll take it. No. It’s like the cheese.

Herman 39:53
Clarence Thomas, man.

Tim 39:57
Oh, yeah, that was on the episode to America’s most hated black Yeah, yeah. And you said I wouldn’t

Travis 40:02
know I think, I don’t know who it was. But we both were Yeah, he is upset. Yeah.

Tim 40:11
So when he comes in Trump, you know, I think that how much I knew about the Antichrist?

Herman 40:20
Oh, I have heard a lot of fear around. Well, I didn’t really know much about it until Obama, because that’s when people started talking about Christ. Interesting. I was like, What the? What? And that was like, I don’t think enough people like him for like, because they were such opposition. I’m like, he’s got to AntiChrist brings together everyone. And the Conservatives right now really hate his blog

Tim 40:41
as well. No. So I mean, I say no, but I don’t know. I only know because I read the Left Behind series. I don’t know if you’ve seen the movie. There’s a movie with the look called left behind. And anyway, it’s about the end of the world revelations, right in Revelation starts to happen in real time. And there’s like this pilot, he has like this family and he in like, everybody disappears. Right? I saw that. I’m pretty sure that’s all the stars, everybody disappears, those that have been saved, right? And give them their their life to God and everybody else to the heathens that are here to go through all the revelations. And, I mean, I mean, if, if you like, just like start mapping it out. Trump and Roe vs. Wade and global warming and COVID. Like, we were only a couple books off revelation, you said

Herman 41:37
that the end times are coming, but I’m like, there are too many reference points, right. And one of those reference points would be like World War Two. We saw what like, I don’t know what the total numbers were on that but we’ll just say 70 million or some 75 million people died in that war. That is absolutely crazy. But to your point, it feels like we’re definitely going down a pathway where whether it’s not war, it just seems like there’s just contention. There’s

Tim 42:06
50 million, you’re very close. But, but if you do the math, like you brought numbers, and if you do the math, like that’s what’s happening. Yeah. Right. Between global warming, you know, Dell, and people starving COVID a breath. Like, I don’t know. So,

Herman 42:25
bro, that kind of goes in. So we did not record the capitalism episode that I wrote. But part of that was you think about growth. And we’ve been growing for forever. And there’s still 46 million people just in us living in or below the poverty line. Yeah. And I’m like, What is all of this for?

Travis 42:41
I don’t know, but I’m hiring. You can walk and chew bubble gum, valid driver’s license and a valid address was valid driver’s license and a clean history. We can we can do this.

Herman 42:55
Like to move dope? Yeah.

Tim 43:00
If you’re pushing drugs now,

Travis 43:02
come on down to the Carter came back around.

Tim 43:06
Can we come up with a new campaign for you, man, just try it out. Man. Let me legalize your

Herman 43:12
V yo, pusher, man.

Travis 43:15
Grinding?

Tim 43:16
I’m an expert in logistics. Are you? Are you good at negotiating deals, negotiating

Travis 43:23
deals?

Tim 43:25
Do you have a team man that you manage? On a day to day basis?

Herman 43:31
Are you constant trying to get the bag?

Travis 43:34
You have performance incentives, right?

Tim 43:37
Do you troubleshoot human relations issues on a day to day basis? And hold

Travis 43:41
people accountable when they don’t hit their metrics?

Tim 43:45
Are you a mask on accounting? People? Are you

Herman 43:47
do you believe that if you do what you need to do at your job that you will grow? Yeah. Is that a belief that you hold? Do what I need to do? Do what your work tells you to do? And the best way that you do Will you always grow?

Travis 44:04
And that’s an absolute statement and I don’t really believe in absolutes.

Herman 44:07
I see I just I just can’t understand people that believe in anything that is absolute. I just

Travis 44:14
like I don’t I don’t believe in absolutes. I believe that more often than not yes, you will get return on your investment

Herman 44:19
100% But I’m like so then and this is not questioning why some I just that I just I fear people that don’t question more. And it’s really interesting to me in this whole belief thing. I think the thing that makes me challenge my own beliefs more than anything is how much shit that we still continue to find out. That is wrong, like different theories was the theory of relativity right like how we look at Mass and black holes and Ludo the size of the universe Pluto right like

Tim 44:47
he got left out bro, bro.

Travis 44:49
We don’t believe any of that. I don’t believe in I don’t believe nobody knows what’s up there. From an astrology standpoint.

Tim 44:56
I mean, that’s what those pictures mean like Mind is like,

Herman 45:02
that’s its own episode.

Travis 45:03
I believe that so we talked about it, I believe some people got together and made sense of some stuff and said, Okay, can we agree? There’s nine planets. And then over time somebody was like, let’s say it’s eight. But you

Tim 45:14
know what’s crazy, though is like you think back I know we’re a little gas. Totally off topic here is just kind of rambling. It’s all about belief. But like, what blows my mind is like the philosophers and scientists, hundreds of years ago, came out with the same conclusions that we’re coming up with now. Yeah, like the sun. You know, you can tell the time the sun. And there’s another solar system, even though they didn’t have a frickin telescope. They knew there was other universities in the world, just like

Travis 45:44
math, if you do it a different way, you’re gonna get the same goddamn answer. So you could have a common core way of doing it at the end of the day, if I take 47 times 12 I don’t know what that is. I can tell you the same common core, or whether I was out here breaking it down the way I was taught. Go, I digress.

Herman 46:09
Yeah, but I guess how you implement new information does matter. Right. So those philosophers that were looking into the skies and trying to make their conclusions based off whatever

Tim 46:20
believer heretics, right that time right? They were founded

Herman 46:23
around not be the center of the universe. So Rawls around us, yeah, you know, like all this stuff, but it it is kind of weird. So I’m like, I, I believe that the sun is at the center of our solar system, and we are in the Milky Way Galaxy, is just one little piece. But what I’m like how do I know? Right? Like people could be we’re supposed to be traveling through space at some crazy speed, like so that our solar system spun within itself, but apparently, we’re spinning through the universe. I’m like, yeah, what? who figured that out? How do I know?

Travis 46:52
I mean, now they’re the same film of satellite. God damn, snacks do you have as you sit there and watch that shit?

Herman 47:08
I have a lot of questions. Which I think I thought most people had a lot of questions if you tell me. Hey, man, the FBI did this. I’m not just gonna say they did that and go. What did you do your

Tim 47:20
40? That’s what Oh, man. Do you think that? Yeah, we question every week.

Travis 47:26
I was just saying about this is about him. He’s in the question part of his life.

Tim 47:30
I feel him though. I too. Okay. Mr. 39.

Travis 47:35
I’m 40 and older now. Yeah, yeah. I’m 40 now. Yeah. Okay.

Tim 47:41
So you feel any right? So yeah, yeah.

Herman 47:45
Yeah, no crazy young bearded.

Tim 47:48
He’s only he’s only 40. Now. He’s only 40. But Nah, man. I mean, it’s, it’s true, though. Like, I question I started to question everything as I get older. And it doesn’t make things better.

Herman 48:03
No.

Tim 48:05
It makes things worse.

Travis 48:07
You just realized how much should you been fed, and people feed it and they say it in a way where you’re supposed to just take it at face value. But then you get to a certain point you like you started out? Yes, you start pressure testing, which is what you’re doing is pressure testing everything. Every damn thing. And, you know, it’s just like, Hmm, you know what? There’s holes in this.

Herman 48:30
I guess I just maybe it is on me. And maybe I had a bigger belief in humanity questioning more than what what they do. Oh, my brother,

Travis 48:38
you black union supposed to have that. But I feel like

Herman 48:41
being a black person that I’m exactly supposed like a look, man, you said that if I give you my license, that everything’s gonna be okay. Like, question everything.

Travis 48:50
And you’re supposed to trust them, but your mom, but then cut the deck? Exactly.

Herman 48:58
Wow. He’s full of on me.

Tim 49:02
Every episode

Travis 49:03
every episode.

Tim 49:07
All right. So you told me, I was gonna say we’re at 49 minutes. I mean, seconds,

Herman 49:16
we can wrap it up for those that don’t know to cut

Tim 49:19
if I need to. All right. How do we start? So where do we go?

Herman 49:27
All right. Well, we started with I feel like people’s behavior in their absolute way of believing falsehoods is challenging me to question more things than I think I have in the past. Things that I think make me me or maybe beliefs that I had in how society would interact with me or interact with the things I care about. Because I believe that it it our core, not everybody hates one another. We might disagree, but we can move forward. But we’ve ended up I swear beliefs are so strong, that actions are just, well, it just everything is worse man, people are just reacting worse to things like are you think your situation is so bad that you have to kill or you know,

Travis 50:14
it’s it’s the right move, though to be questioning because we have to understand you as we are in this transitional phase, and this is why we are black in the middle is everything that we absorbed, we were at a different time in our life, the world was in a different place. But most importantly, you know, we didn’t have the ability to process information like we do now. So we’re probably at our mental peak, as far as being able to take discern question, pressure test, and provide outcomes. And because we, we have a foundation, we have information for us, we have education on top of that. But we have these all these tools at our disposal to be able to now ration which will help us take a look at what we can deem to be irrational. But hopefully we can take that and empathize, at least see where they’re coming from, which is where the ultimate goal would so that we get away from that argument of the absolute ism of I’m right, you’re completely wrong. But I think it’s a good place to be in ultimately. Because at this point in your life, I think you can capitalize on everything that you have seen done and your ability to rationalize information. And

Herman 51:26
I think I love that. But I think that the only reason why that matters is only in making money. Like I think about intelligence and capability and all those great things and like the only thing that that matters for is is earning. But what as far as what matters, like intelligence, and like all of those, all of the things that you said, but I’m like that is good for winning people over making money for you and yours. But somebody else’s crazy beliefs, right? That is it. To me, it’s like the separate thing that I’m like you’re intelligent doesn’t matter. I just adore intelligence doesn’t matter to that motherfucker that doesn’t care about that then wants to hurt you based off of your perspective.

Travis 52:06
I just disagree with that. And for a couple reasons. One, I think it matters more than just making money. Because one, you have a responsibility that you side and foot forward to guide lives, sir. And so it definitely matters. In that respect, I think the other thing is, is that as you build a credible base of being a knowledgeable individual, or an inability, individual who people seek to least get their opinion, you then become explosive in your ability to be able to talk to others, and share at least your opinion, whether it’s gospel or not, you, you’re that, for me, I feel as if people seek my opinion on certain things, and they want to know how I process it or what I think. Because if I’m not credible, if I’m not knowledgeable, which I believe in those cases, I am, at least on some sort of ration. So they want to see how I’m seeing it, and allow that to be a recipe for them to be able to process it in their own way that so no, that’s why your intelligence is important. And it goes beyond this podcast like the three of us. Yes, we are part of certain people’s recipe to be able to take this information and then take it to another level of thought. But I think that it’s it’s it’s groundwork for us to be able to move forward as a society once you build that base.

Herman 53:32
So I lean into the rational thought on most things, but I’m like we think about intelligence. It just it can be weaponized so bad, right? Ted Cruz went to Harvard. Right in I’m saying some like, but he’s right down there in the sticks, telling people about you know, this shit. That’s just not true. Like, he’s smart. He is strategic. Yeah, that whole party is strategic and how can we lie to people and get them to give us their money? And I’m like,

Travis 53:59
I just Well, yes, it comes in comes money. powerspec So you need like, I just

Herman 54:04
don’t know what the I like to predict things but I don’t know what the outcome is going to be. And when I say outcome, I’m like 2530 years from now. Right? Like I just

Travis 54:14
it’s more chaos, but it will never be more chaos is the safest thing to predict. But remember, everything is a pendulum and eventually the pendulum swings.

Herman 54:23
That is the fear is that the pendulum won’t swing back from this or how do you bring somebody in from change change my belief that’s gonna take years

Travis 54:34
brother just because you can’t see it in the near side doesn’t mean it’s not out there on the far side.

Tim 54:38
Yeah, I would agree with that. And personally, lately, I’ve been questioning everything. Like everything right, yeah. And maybe says midlife crisis,

Travis 54:54
you say with more emphasis but we agree. We know

Tim 55:00
So, it I mean, like, like everything right? So we’ve talked about religion, we’ve talked about government, politics, work, capitalism, consumerism. Right, right. And all of these things are man made, right? Systems that we created to, to govern all the people, basically, right? Like, if there was just, there was just two people, and we’re at 55 minutes, we can cut this part out if he goes around. But, but like, you know, if there

Travis 55:32
was just leaving in

Tim 55:35
if there was just a few people on this earth, like, we don’t need all these systems in place to govern a few people or a town or a village like, but when you start to build masses, you have to have systems in place to manage, right? And then you start creating you have needs, right? And like, I’m like, This is what I’ve been thinking about lately. follow up, follow me. Right? So from the beginning of time, or beginning of time for man, right? Because science versus religion, how did this all start? I don’t know. Was it this magical being this guy, there’s like, poof, here you go. Whatever, we’re not gonna go there. It’s a different episode. And I’m I have my auntie on for that. But, but anyway, like, like, I’m starting to question like, everything, like, a lot of the beliefs that I was born with, or that was fed into me to build the Tim McCoy that is today. Some of those are, are withering away or getting eroded by new thought or challenging the status quo? Is that a good thing? Right, like we are, we are, we are taught I think human nature tells us like, alright, we want to be confrontational. Human nature. We always want we can have, we always want more, right like that, that fuels capitalism. Right. And like, that’s why socialism, you know, isn’t a thing because all I gotta do for other people. It’s about me, me, me, me grow, grow, grow, win, win, win, make more, make more. Right. So these other lines of thinking are, you know, like, America, we’re just coming out. But it’s democracy we’re doing in our way. Even though we’re not doing a good job, I need you to do it. Like, did you? If you if we look at all the countries that we’ve spent billions of dollars trying to install democracy in over a length of time, that’s it? How many of them are still democratic nations? I don’t know the answer to this, but I’m willing to bet that we lost on those investments. Yeah. Who’s the nuke? What is it that another country whatever, just decided the President just took over? He’s like, no, no more democracy. I’m taking over we’re gonna go back the way things are.

Herman 57:50
Is that the dude from Hungary?

Tim 57:52
I think he won. Yeah, but not but but the laws that he’s enacting, like, no, no more terms. I got full power.

Travis 57:59
If you could do that. Why wouldn’t you do that? But and

Tim 58:02
what but why isn’t that? Why why is that frowned upon? Right? Like, if if I’m a good wholesome leader, I’m Herman Watson, and I’m leading this nation, right? And I’m the fucking king of everything. But all my ideas are great. It’s for the better good of the country. Why is that wrong? Because we can’t Why do I need more focus to vote who aren’t even educated to give their say, when they leave the focus going on, like I got, I’m processing shit at a totally different level, then you come in person who were voting on mine,

Travis 58:31
because you can’t convince the common person in the United States of America that they don’t know as much as those who were? Yeah,

Tim 58:38
I’m off, I’m off to us. And I’m more like,

Travis 58:41
like world. But if I have the ability to just come in and make everybody believe that I am a good leader, and everybody believing we’re comfortable in my skills, why wouldn’t I try to be like, you know, what, I’ll talk for? You speak when spoken to?

Tim 58:53
And we do that. We do that micro level, right? Through corporations through Absolutely, absolutely. You know, business happens, right? Yep. And so, it’s not a fucking democracy in my company, like, I will give people a say, but if I disagree with everything, they say, it’s my way. Right? Because I’m the one that’s at risk here. You know what I’m saying? It’s, so why can’t we run a nation like that? Why can’t we because there’s so much bad in this world. There’s so many people trying to do bullshit, and when and at all cost. Like, there’s evil, you know, I’m saying, and so, at the end of the day, it comes back to like this good versus evil. Thing is not democratic versus we just, we’re just good versus bucking evil and the evil motherfuckers are winning.

Travis 59:40
We’re a publicly traded company, like everybody in America believes we are shareholders. And we have a say based on either how much money we earned or our contributions

Tim 59:51
that that is what we’ve been fed. That’s what we’ve been fed. That’s what we that’s how we are programmed.

Travis 59:55
That’s how we’re approximately and it’s not the truth. It’s not the truth and They can’t handle the truth. But it’s like, it’s very much. So you’re correct. It’s, it’s, it’s not the truth. And there’s a small amount of people who govern what we do. But there’s a lot of people who think that they’re influencing that. Like, we think that we put these people in play. And we think that we’re gassing them up to take on our crusades. I don’t believe it all the time they take on their own crusades when they get in there. Well,

Tim 1:00:27
well, you talked about the voting system earlier. Yeah. And how we think it’s a free and fair election. I disagree. I mean, I don’t think it’s ever been that. There’s always something going on in the background, from what I’ve learned, through all the movies, I watched him. But no, seriously by looped through all of the things that I’ve seen deals on on a scale that’s larger than me, like, I’m a small minded person. And I don’t say that in a bad way. I mean, like, like a micro, right, I deal with the stuff, the people the issues that are at hand, when it comes to like, big level thinking, like that shit is in play. And we go back to the Roe versus Wade, and how that shit was, you know, I ran a few years ago. That’s not a 50 year strategy. It’s not a lot, but it’s long for us. Right?

Herman 1:01:13
Right. It’s,

Tim 1:01:14
that’s, that’s over half a lifetime.

Herman 1:01:16
That’s why the voter fraud thing took off. Because in every election, there’s voter fraud. The reality is, so it is true when I say there’s fraud in every election. Yeah. But if it is not enough to overturn it, right. Then it’s like, well, yeah, but when you look at the cases, if you actually look at like the cases that are brought against people, it’s for like, crazy shit people serving time for like, oh, shit, I filled out one, but I forgot that I had mailed in one because I was out of the country. And it’s, it’s crazy shit like that. I’m like, Okay, how many people could that be? It’s like 100 people, and 20 got prosecuted. So, you know. But yeah,

Tim 1:01:56
I mean, I don’t know, I just

Herman 1:01:57
for most part, I’m like, I think that American strong, because we voted because you can vote and you see the numbers come in. And I mean, we’re breaking it down by county by county, you know, in Hebrew. I mean, it could be I think that that’s where we’re headed, right? Like

Travis 1:02:11
if you

Tim 1:02:12
can’t win the popular vote and not become president, too. And there’s the Electoral College system that at 41. I still don’t understand. Yeah, man.

Herman 1:02:20
They’re like, Oh, who wouldn’t been in that shit. California has more people living in this state than the entire country of Canada in and I’m saying like it just, but they they to only have of this minimal impact in America. And you got, yeah, just they have the same power as just Wyoming sound like

Tim 1:02:41
it? That doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t. But then you want free and fair and equal opportunity. And your voice is just as loud as theirs is,

Travis 1:02:50
honestly, the electoral college. And that whole process is our biggest is one of our biggest issues, right? Because the popular vote gets dominated by cities. Right. So blues that a lot of blue cities. Yeah. Rural America. Right. And right, yeah. So you have all these people who get put into play based on electoral electoral college systems, and, and other, you know, voting mechanisms, but the people in the country are speaking for the people in the city. And that is two different tones. That’s totally.

Tim 1:03:25
And that’s probably the way it’s set up is probably the the main issue, like they can also be burned to the ground. Yeah. Well, I

Herman 1:03:31
think that that’s the physical. Sorry,

Tim 1:03:34
even if it’s just popular vote, right. Like, why, how long is it gonna take for that population to change? Right, Democrats will always be in the city problems, we you know, always run the rule. If that’s it, then that’s it, then how do we you know,

Travis 1:03:48
you got to be a shitty Republican candidate to turn the rural blue.

Herman 1:03:53
Yeah, or the population has to change for like Texas, like, Texas is leaning more purple. And I mean, that is a state is it? Yeah. It’s

Tim 1:04:02
because a lot of moving Latin Americans are running Republican.

Herman 1:04:06
I know him and that was crazy. But Georgia is another one, like Georgia has been solid red for forever, and then you get Warnock and ASAF to hit one

Travis 1:04:13
is because ATL shoddy

Herman 1:04:17
work. You could call it voter fraud. I don’t know. I just

Travis 1:04:23
didn’t counted that mug too many times.

Herman 1:04:25
Yeah. I don’t know, man. I just bill.

Tim 1:04:30
So where do we go from here?

Herman 1:04:31
So I think from here, you know, our listeners, I believe that they believe in certain things, but also believe that they would question certain things and have strong capable arguments for against whatever the conversation topic may be. And that’s why I’m kind of like, ooh, we might be in a silo but I’m like, I just wish people that differ in that have a much different opinion, would challenge their own beliefs more, seek the opposing information. Maybe think before you take certain risks. based off of what could be a falsehood, because it doesn’t just affect whether you’re going to go to jail or not for attacking the Capitol or something like that, it’s also going to affect like, you’re going to be investing in things that aren’t going to be good investments, you might be believing in all kinds of falsehoods that are going to limit your ability to grow, succeed, provide. And I just don’t think that you should let that happen. And maybe you’re not going to feel that, but you got to know what’s real.

Tim 1:05:25
I mean, you know, my takeaway is, I guess it comes down to like, I hate to say it, but we versus me, me and mine. You know, like, all these countries, like, it’s a trend, it’s not just America, countries are becoming more nationalistic. Let’s take care of ours. And I, and I wish back to the 40 million people who are living under the poverty level line. Why can’t we take care of ours first, and then others, and it’s, it’s, it’s out of greed, it’s out of capitalism and consumerism. And we’ll talk about that, you know, I’m back that in a future episode. But I think as long as as long as that is the fiber of this country, which it will always be granted, this is an absolute absolutism that Do you disagree? On? Don’t? It’s hard to disagree with that one, right? We’re always gonna be this way. But it’s like, how do we make that? And there’s, there’s nothing inherently wrong with this way. But it’s how do we make it right for more people? Yes. Which we, we don’t have a solution to that.

Travis 1:06:37
I will set the table for our next episode, which will be about capitalism and consumerism. But it’s the only thing holding us together. And my humble opinion, I think it’s pushing us apart. And it’s pushing us apart. But worth is the only thing holding us together, because otherwise, there’s no real reason for us to remain united. And as we’ve talked about in previous episodes, and we see things decentralized, and people’s beliefs get formed not only by how they feel about the state of affairs, but there’s also some geographical things that kind of tie into that as well. Different people from different places feel different ways about different things. But I see that the fragmentation will just continue unless something drastically changes. But right now in the state that we’re currently in, we’re just not really unified. And that’s due to a lot of the things that we discussed. I think it’s really good to be questioning myself and hopefully want to do what’s right for America and Americans. So regardless of your party, I think that needs to be your mindset, we really differ on how to get there. Hopefully, we can get to a way where we’re more synergize. But as it currently stands, things are so polarizing and toxic due to the players in the game that wants the player has changed, and we might have a chance.

Tim 1:07:48
Yeah, I think the hard part is just looking forward and trying to find what is that silver lining? Or, you know, where’s that, you know, clear blue sky sky that we’re looking for, like, what does that look like? Maybe that’s what we try to unpack and maybe try to back into it. Because I do not know.

Herman 1:08:07
Same? Well think about it. Yeah. We’ll bring it to you.

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