Special Guest: Glenn Sandifer II

Oct 7, 2022 | Season 3

Romantic relationships are challenging under the best of circumstances. Throw in the rigors of an increasingly demanding business world and you have a recipe for dating frustration and failure. On this week’s pod the boys interview author, executive leader, business strategist (and fellow FAMU alum) Glenn Sandifer II. Glenn’s new book, The Middle Ground, explores the complex dynamics of business and romance.

Herm wants you to know that Glenn’s views are his own as we discuss the differences between High Value Men and High Value Women, why there’s so much friction when you choose the wrong kind of partner and how successful men can avoid relationship failure in a modern world.

Hosts & Guests

Travis Brown

Herman Watson

Tim McCoy

Black in the Middle Podcast episode gems

Special Guest: Glenn Sandifer II


Travis: “When did you decide that you’re gonna write a book?”


Glenn: “I came out of a really bad, a divorce, around 2012. From that I spent around two years in therapy and came away with an understanding of why the relationship failed. What did I do? What did I miss? Were there red flags that I missed? Was I ready for that responsibility and duty at that time of marriage as a husband, and a provider? The answers were no, no, no, and it’s all your fault.”


Glenn: “With that I adjusted my thinking and philosophy, and began writing articles. I took information from my professional career, from other sales professionals and business owners that were having the same struggles. That ultimately became The Middle Ground.”


Glenn: The premise of The Middle Ground is that we now have more opportunities for success, but successful people are complaining that they’re not getting the dating outcomes that they’re seeking. What the book uncovers is how we got here. What is a man? what is a woman? What are you doing to earn the life and relationship that you want? And ultimately how do you find that middle ground?



Tim: “Glenn Sandifer II, born in Indianapolis Indiana. This guy is Black in the Middle through and through. Give us the high level of your upbringing and how it was in that town.”


Glenn: “I grew up in a two parent household. My mother and father are still married, celebrating 44 years of marriage this year. Both came from very large families, so family was big.  Growing up in Indiana definitely shaped who I was. But when it came time to graduate from high school, I knew that I wanted to attend an HBCU.”


Glenn: “We had township schools that were designed as an opportunity for integration. Our school was 50/50, African American and Caucasian. That was pretty much Elementary school and middle school, all the way through high school. I graduated in a class of almost 500.”



Tim: “Which of your experiences influenced this book?”


Glenn: “I’ve had the privilege of being able to coach people in business. What I’m hearing, even to this day, is that most people having a lack of success in their corporate career… aren’t getting that support in their relationship.”


Glenn: “There are a ton of books written about business success and corporate success but they never talk about what you have to trade off to get that success. Those trade-offs are unspoken and they become points of tension in the relationship.”



Tim: “Glenn, is an entrepreneur. He wrote a book and published it. He’s had just as many companies as I have. He’s a very financially savvy individual, probably that FAMU MBA kicking in.”


Travis: “So he has a FAMU MBA. He has multiple streams of income. He’s an Executive leader. Does that make him a High Value Man?”


Tim: “Yeah, Glenn, did you just proclaim yourself as a High Value Man in your books?”


Glenn: “I didn’t self-proclaim anything. I don’t judge if I’m a High Value Man, other High Value Men who are at a higher-level judge that. It comes from the tribe, the group of men that you’re around who hold you accountable.”



Tim: “So in the introduction you say, “Let me warn you that you may not like what I have to say.” First page. First paragraph. “Trigger Warning.””


Travis: “That makes you sit up in the chair.”



Tim: “So, Herman, why you mad though?”


Herman: “I’m not mad at all.”


Glenn: “I was gonna say, Herman’s not mad.”



Herman: “Is this book trying to stop people from jumping out of their league? Because in my world, people always chase up.”


Glenn: “The Middle Ground asks “What do you want? What do you qualify for? What does the partner you qualify for want? And how do you give it to her?””


Glenn: “If you look at my own marriage… In order to qualify for my wife, it costs something, I have to be able to provide at a certain level. I have to be able to emote at a certain level. I have to be able to give time at a certain level. 10 years ago, I wouldn’t have qualified for my wife and I know that. But now that I know what she requires, I can be a better provider and a better husband.”


Glenn: “Don’t out-kick your coverage because you may never be able to gain that coverage back.”


Glenn: “We live in a world now where everybody has a list. You’ve heard the list. People have a list of what they want from their job, from their employees, from their provider… But also we have a list for our relationship. And that list is much longer than it was in 1981. So when you go into a relationship with this list of things that don’t actually matter and you haven’t done the work on the things that do ultimately matter, you get the bad relationship outcomes we see over and over. You get frustrated.”


Tim: “That brings me back to the Entitlement episode. America has an entitlement culture, period, at every level across the board.”



Herman: “I’m thinking about my wife. She connected with me when I didn’t have a damn thing. I was at rock bottom. But she saw something in me that even I couldn’t see. So should she not have talked to me at all?”


Travis: “I’ve been telling you for years you out-kicked your coverage.”


Glenn: “As men we should all try to outkick our coverage. Herman, that is exactly what the book is trying to get people to do. Stop coming with a list. You have potential that your wife saw. She was looking at different characteristics and her long term needs.”

Toggle for full episode transcript »

Tim 0:00
All right, we are back. These are your host, Tim Travis Herman and we have a very, very special guest today on the pod. It is Glenn Sandifer, the second a close, close, very close friend, fraternity brother. You know, classmate, colleague, we’ve we’ve pretty much done it all together throughout the years. And so I’m super excited to have him because Glenn is now a published author.

Herman 0:28
Wow, nice. Congratulations, man.

Tim 0:30
We got it. We got a sound effect somewhere for that, but I just don’t have a mark. But big, big round of applause for

Travis 0:35
you, bro. Standing ovation. So, alright, so

Tim 0:39
today. So Glenn’s book is about relationships, which this is technically part two from our last episode, you know, that one where Herman wanted to? You know, share somebody?

Herman 0:51
Good day, man. I just had a good day.

Tim 0:53
All right, cool. So I’m excited to not only just kind of introduce you and your brand to my KC friends and our followers, but also just talk about this book. Because I mean, first off, like, it’s hella impressive that you, you set out a goal to write a book, you wrote the book, you publish the book, and now you’re promoting the book, like, just just doing what you say you’re gonna do is huge in this world. And so it’s a friend, I’m really proud that you do.

Glenn 1:21
Thank you, my brother.

Travis 1:22
When did you decide that you’re gonna write a book?

Glenn 1:26
When did I decide? Or when I do it? You When did you decide? I never really wanted to write the book. It came really as a challenge. So the why I guess it’s really important. So I came out of a really bad, a divorce, around 2012. And from that I spent around two years in therapy. And from that two years of therapy, I came away from that kind of understanding why did the relationship fail? And not fail because of her or her actions? But what did I do? What did I miss? Were there flags that I missed? Was I ready for that responsibility and duty at that time of marriage as a husband, and a provider? And the answers were no, no, no, and it’s all your fault. So with that, I adjusted my thinking and philosophy, and began writing articles. So this was Facebook was the thing. So you know, publishing on WordPress, I had a number of articles that were out there, where I took information from my dialogue, in my professional career, with other sales professionals, other business owners, that were having the same struggles, and ultimately became what is now the middle ground. And the premise of the middle ground is that we now have more success and more opportunity towards success. And the more successful we become, a lot of people are complaining, they’re not getting the dating outcomes that they’re seeking. And part of the reason is what is uncovered in the book as to why that is the case, how we got here. What was it? What is it man, what is a woman? What are you got? What are you doing to earn that, and then the bulk now being a three part book, go into what is the middle ground, how to get what you want, and then doing the work on the back end as part of

Tim 3:22
dope? All right. Awesome Intro. Let’s rewind. Glenn sander for born in Indiana, this guy, this guy’s black in the middle. He’s black in the middle through and through probably one of the reasons why we hit it off. So well. Just kind of give us like the high level of your upbringing and how it was in that town.

Glenn 3:46
Sure, in that town, so I grew up in two parent household, my mother and father are still married, celebrating 44 years of marriage this year. So both of them came from two very large families out of Northwest Indiana, seven to be exact on both sides. So family and, you know, on with family for milestone events was very important. So growing up in Indianapolis, I was the only one in Indianapolis, the rest were all in Northwest Indiana, extended side, Mississippi. So as an only child, you can imagine growing up as an only child. I had a lot of friends a lot of time a lot of things. But you know, kind of growing up in Indiana kind of shaped who I was. And when it came time to graduate from high school and I knew I was going to attend college. I knew that I wanted to attend an HBCU so it applied to a bunch and was ultimately accepted to at that time but don’t Cookman college.

Tim 4:47
Yeah, that’s right. You did go to VCC. First,

Glenn 4:51
he sees me for my freshman year hated it, but do a really good for him from that first year. And then I made the decision decision to transfer to Florida a&m.

Tim 5:02
Alright, so so we rewind back to your high school upbringing in elementary High School. Like we grew up in white America. How was your How are the demographics in your local town and high school?

Glenn 5:14
Yeah, the demographics. Well, like most cities in America, you know, you have your public school, your private school, but we had township schools were in our city, we had nine townships, and they were designed to be a, an opportunity for integration. So I graduated from Warren Central High School and go Bears. And at that time, our school was 50 5050, African American, 50%, African American, 50%. Caucasian there were the occasional Hispanic, Asian, sprinkled in classmates that we have, but the numbers were never passed the single digits. Um, so that was pretty much through from elementary school and middle school, all the way through high school. I graduated in class of almost 500.

Tim 6:04
Wow, okay. Yeah, just different man.

Travis 6:08
And so you grew up as a single? Oh, excuse me as an only child. So you were pretty much spoiled as hell like Tim wants to

Glenn 6:16
date? Because he’s never He wasn’t she?

Tim 6:25
Because spoiling your kids is a reflection of the parents. Yeah.

Glenn 6:29
You get the time of both parents. So no, I wouldn’t say that I was spoiled. Because here’s the here’s the mark. I did not have a pair of shoes over 35 years. Until I bought them myself. I bought my first ga 33. Just because of my mindset. I will tell you, my cousins who have been listening, they’re gonna say,

Tim 6:50
right, right, because it’s on the other side of the track.

Glenn 6:54
No, my cousin’s not on the other side of

Tim 6:59
my room on the other side of the state line. Tom, Matt, why you sound white?

Travis 7:04
Man to why you talk. So.

Tim 7:09
But okay, cool. So so how did you why did you decide to go to HBCU? Never the issue that.

Glenn 7:16
Yeah, so I wanted to attend an HBCU. And part of it was just being introduced into it. So like most Midwest cities, we had a class. So we have the Circuit City classic. That typically put, you know, the two top bands and the top football programs against each other here. So that was a big part of our my childhood and development every year. So city plastic was the first weekend of October. So just seeing kind of the pageantry through the city classic parade. thing, just the what we now call black excellence, and the alumni bases just coming back and support and just seeing honestly, the women just being fine. You didn’t have that.

Herman 7:58
Right. Tim always talks about that ratio,

Tim 8:00
bro. 17 to one ratio. Fans canvas, man. Yeah. Yeah, man.

Glenn 8:07
It’s just better. Yeah. Yeah. So the city classic was that and then there was a gentleman by the name of Robert Patrick. Key posted Polish tours. So my first college tour was seventh grade, spring break. We got up to three got to the bus station at 430. And we attended. We went down to Kentucky State. We went over to Wilberforce Central State. So that was the first trip. The next spring break of the day fist Harry. Then the next spring break ninth grade. a&m, Morehouse.

Tim 8:41
Right. Give leveling up. Yeah, so

Glenn 8:44
you leveled up in, you know, level up in your agency you every spring break, and then by the summer, it was at that point where my parents said, All right, we think that you really do like HBCU. Let’s go look at Howard. I was looking at Hanson, go all the way down to the throne and take a look that you want to look at Texas. And I was like, No, I don’t want that. So that was kind of it’s kind of a

Tim 9:08
dilemma do college tours. Other than recruiting trips? No,

Travis 9:11
I did recruiting trips

Herman 9:12
with my sister with schools. I was not gonna go to

Tim 9:16
wash you Harvard. Yeah. Yeah,

Herman 9:19
we did all like ivy league. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. Okay. Nope. Yeah. And

Tim 9:24
I mean, like, the college world was never really introduced to me, like my mom was taking classes, you know, at CMS, you at the time, and we had taken these recruiting trips like these, you know, Rolla and see MSU and Drake, but like they were, I never really saw this experience. Like when I went to fam I mean, it was complete culture shock. Yeah. But if I would have known, I mean, I would have just made a earlier decision. But anyway, I digress. So, so that’s dope. All right. So fast forward through college. Let’s kind of you know, I guess let’s let’s fast forward through college and let’s talk about like Going into your first big, big relationship man, let’s let’s kind of dive into some of the content of the book like what part of, I guess what was like the first major experience that you had that really influenced this book?

Glenn 10:16
The first major experience that influenced the book would be my wife. Yeah, the current way. And I’ve encouraged me to get that out. And the content from the book is not necessarily from relationships. I’ve had the privilege of being able to coach people over the over

Tim 10:35
relationships, not meaning just romantic, right? Absolutely. That’s a good

Glenn 10:38
distinction able to coach but what came out of that Coach, what always comes out of that coach, and even to this day, is the relationship component. Because most people, if they’re having a lack of success in their corporate career, navigating going from a sales rep to a sales manager, manager to a director, what they’re finding is that they’re not getting that support in their relationship. And they don’t know if it’s an issue of capacity. They don’t know if it’s an issue of identifying and meeting needs. And there are a ton of books that talk about the why behind, you know, business success, corporate success, but there’s not really a connection to what you have to trade off in order to get that success. And in most instances, the trade offs are really kind of unspoken, and then they become points of tension in the relationship. So but my, you know, from a relationship standpoint, I didn’t have any relationships. Yeah, many girlfriends or anything, I think, for the NMI. Two, yeah. And one coming out of college who I was through, but don’t quote me and my first year, fam, and then, you know, I was on hiatus. I wasn’t popular, like, you know, whatever. I was into video games and

Tim 11:48
you un. I forget about that. To see bones ears perked up because he has not read the entire book. I’m just going to call him out. He read the first couple chapters. But when you said, Oh, this is based off of corporate relationships, he was like, Oh, this is HR. I saw you I saw,

Travis 12:08
you know, what my my question was going to be in this question that I’ve had is, and I’m trying to temper all my questions, of course, to pace myself. But what is your line of business? Like? Obviously, we probably don’t need the company name. But like, you know, you’re an Executive leader, man. What? What type of industry you

Glenn 12:25
in talking about that story? It’s a good, yeah, I’m an executive in the security industry. Okay, so security, not investigations, or private, but commercial grade and residential security solutions. We also do weapons detection, drone detection, drone, displacement, things like that.

Tim 12:43
And I mean, Glen, is an entrepreneur as well, obviously, he wrote a book and published in marketing, but he’s had just as many companies as I have, about two years, I would say more successful. I think that you’ve been you’ve, you’ve done a great job on like, each, each venture that you’ve taken is built upon the previous one, and I think has led you to where you are now and what you do. You know, Mr. Sandefur, has multiple streams of income. I think he’s a very financial savvy individual, probably that FAMU MBA kicking in, honestly.

Travis 13:20
So he has a family MBA. He has multiple streams of income. He is an Executive leader. Does that make him a high value? Man?

Tim 13:32
I think so. Somebody was somebody read the book? Yeah. I mean, did you just self proclaim yourself as a high value, man and your books?

Glenn 13:42
Anything? Because I think that if you talk about the high value, man and the characteristics of a high value, man, it comes from your group and your network. And it talks about what your earnings, the talk about the earning piece, because a lot of people get stuck on earning this guy. What’s the problem? He’s stuck? So yeah, so you’re earning if you’re earning $1,000 a month, for a five to 10 year period, that puts you in the category. What I talked about in the book is I removed four groups in their groups that have the fame component to it, preacher, politician, athlete entertainer, because they can automatically say, Hey, I’m a high value, man, I make two and a half million dollars a year and I’ve done it the last 20 years, when you start looking at the other characteristics of their tribe, the group of men, that they’re around that hold them accountable, that they’re growing and developing, that their integrity, their family, men are men that are committed to the growth and development of their local community and their broader community. And they do that over a consistent time period high character, then that will make them high value. They don’t judge if I’m high value, other high value men who are at a higher level judge that and so what I say is based on the book I’ve been on six. Yeah, and most men have, especially if they get to high values that there are some who can skip some steps. But typically, you have to go through the evolutions and the trials in order to get to the level in which you can be the most effective use for your community or for your family.

Tim 15:19
All right, agree with that. Herman. Are you ready to pop off? Is Mr. Warming up? harmless?

Herman 15:26
Pop? So there’s a lot I disagree with what?

Tim 15:28
Alright, hold on, hold on. Before you before you get started, before you get started. Let me let me let me start off with a few things. So in the introduction of the book, it is stated, in fact, let me warn you that you may not like what I have to say this is in the first paragraph, your first page of the intro, first paragraph, trigger warning

Travis 15:51
that makes you sit up in the chair. You stood up a little bit like oh,

Tim 15:56
okay, okay, go ahead.

Travis 15:58
Let me see what let me see what’s poppin.

Tim 16:00
So But so then the other piece that I wanted to just make sure like we just kind of explained, Well, Glenn, just it he explained it very well, this book speaks to the corporate executive, aspiring executive, solopreneur entrepreneur, or high earning individuals struggling with the balance of balance of managing successful relationships while finding sustained success in their professional careers. So what I thought you did fantastically in the book is you identified who this is for like, very clearly. And so, you know, and I think, to some respects, you know, it’s hard to be all of those things. Right. So that’s why you got the playbook. Right. So Herman Why are you mad, though,

Herman 16:47
so I’m not mad at all.

Glenn 16:50
I’m not mad,

Herman 16:51
I’m not mad. I am used because I look at so let’s just if we just stay on the salary, the 12, five, it can mean so many different things. And we’re talking about like making $200,000 Like, that can also ebb and flow based off of decisions that you might have made before some like you could be paying for multiple children. So like, you know why that threshold is a start. And then anything above that, um, you’re talking about ballplayers and even if you take them out, I’m like, I feel like, there’s also a lot of confusion that women could get by misinterpreting what a high value man is. Because I just feel like you know, if that is something that feels like this book chases, right, like you want to have, well, I guess the book really talks about chasing the category in which you align. But that also isn’t what people do. So I guess one of my questions is, is this to stop people from trying to like, jump up ahead of where they want to be? Because in my world, I’m like, you would always chase to chase the

Tim 17:50
dress for the job? Yeah, yeah.

Glenn 17:52
It’s your let me make sure I understand the question. Because if there were a lot of valid points in there, you’re saying that the financial threshold, if that such high number is a challenge, but also, is the book geared towards having people go after what they qualify for? So I talked about that. So it’s, what do you want? What do you qualify for? What does who you qualify for one? And how do you give it to him? Right? Because if we look at, I don’t like to do celebrity relationships, things like that. But if you look at look at my own relationship, and my marriage qualify for my wife, in order to qualify for my wife, taught something, I have to be able to provide at a certain level, I have to be able to emote at a certain level, I have to be able to give a time at a certain level. 10 years ago, I wouldn’t have qualified for my wife and I know that. But now that I know that I qualified for my wife, I do a better job of trying to study her and figure out what she wants, so that I can be the better provider that she needs and the better husband, a spouse so that she can be free or free works or that visible talks about because if the ultimate outcome and desired outcome is marriage, I want people to understand don’t help kick your coverage, because you may never be able to gain that coverage back. Oh, we have we have a we have a world now where everyone has a list. You’ve heard you’ve heard the list people that I’ve talked to and I’ve coped, they have a list of what they want from their job, what they want from their employees, from their provider. But then we also have the list for our relationship. And that list is much longer than it was in 1981. Right? That list includes things that when you look at the desired outcome of relationships, sometimes they’ll be back right? So when you go into a relationship with the list, that doesn’t matter, and you haven’t done the work on the things that matter. You get the outcomes that we’re seeing today relationships. So good point and are frustrated. Women are frustrated where modern women are frustrated with modern man traditional man are frustrated with tradition. You know what I mean and modern. And it just it’s a fight. It’s a rinse and repeat cycle,

Tim 20:04
that that list. I mean, that just, you know, brings me back to the entitlement episode, right? Like, yeah, America has a has an entitlement culture, period at every level across the board, like we make and list Yeah, of our requirements. And we’re not even thinking about what are we put giving out and putting, you know, bringing to the table, I

Herman 20:23
think that we do it, we just don’t think about it. Right. So that’s where we end we don’t put it down on paper, we make our own list. It’s not like it’s intentional, like some things are some attributes of who people are just you land in a certain place just based off of who you are, right? But if you’re not like paying attention to those actions, you know, then I guess yes, to your point, like you will get misaligned because you don’t even know what that other person could be looking into you or like your value because I’m thinking about my wife. And I’m like, man, like me and my wife, she connect with me when I didn’t have like a damn thing. I was at rock bottom. But she saw something in me that at the time, I didn’t see. Yeah, but then I read this book. And I’m like, Well, I didn’t I qualified for her on characteristics that I couldn’t describe at the time. But then she should have seen something in me or she should not have talked to me at all, because I was definitely well,

Travis 21:10
we’ve been telling you for years you got kicked your cover.

Glenn 21:15
Man, we shut out kick our club, believe that to be true. You got to check their coverage and character beauty standard. We just do. And I mean, that’s that’s kind of the deal. But going back to your point, Herman, that is exactly what the book is trying to get people to do. Stop looking don’t come with a list, you have potential that your now wife saw. And she was looking at a different characterization or a different list of needs that she wanted long term, I’m assuming Yeah. So that makes sense to me. And the book is about helping people get out of their way of not doing that.

Travis 21:53
So one of the Yeah, one of the ways you do that is by identifying the different types. So you talked about qualifications can for the listener, can you help identify the different types of males? We you know, we did that, in our social dominance. We went alpha, beta, gamma delta, you know, almost, yeah, man. But you have your own sense of males, you know, can you kind of walk us through that so we can, so the listener can absorb the different types.

Glenn 22:25
Okay, listener, trigger, warning, man, trigger warning, women trigger warning, because your man falls in his gut. So the chapter is boys to high value men. Chapter Two will tell you the original Chapter Three of the Bible was only longer. So much content that came out of everything. But let’s just say that the first is boy. So we talk about a boy and from a character from a characteristic standpoint of what boys are, boys are into fantasies, they’re into childish pursuit. So boys are not ready for relationship. I have a boy, he’s nowhere near mature enough to handle anything outside of what he can do with. The next group is the most popular group with your female audience. The F boy, they love the F boy. He has the looks. He has the charm. He has the style, he can afford the fantasies of a boy. He, but emotionally he’s not immature, emotionally, he’s unavailable. But he has the best chemistry the is the best looking, he has the best sex. So our twin a lot of our women spend time with the F boy. Also, the F boy is the one that most men pay the mistakes for. So when you get your woman you got to pay for the mistakes of the F boy she chose to spend two three years with. So then you have

Herman 23:54
at least we can relate. Because we were that guy at one point.

Travis 23:59
Boy, yeah.

Glenn 24:04
You know, I’m pretty sure some guys paying for my mistake for my, you know, my bad decisions and my bad behavior. And I apologize for that right now. Guy is what I talked about. He’s just kind of there. The guy is your friend zone. So he’s at work, you meet him at Target. He’s really nice. He’s at the gym. He’s always there. He walks you to your car. There’s no chemistry, and there’s nothing and even if you try to force it with a guy, nothing happened. But guys are really solid, dudes, really solid people. So then you go from guys, to our males, males is going to that’s going to be the highest population. And the reason that’s the highest population is because in our modern society, we have a tendency to have men as males who are very deferential. You guys talked about on your episode, alpha, beta and gamma. You have a lot of betas in that area where they refer to the men are in their life. They refer to the women in their life. And it leads them to the poor relationship outcomes. This is also the most highly dated relationship guy that modern women specifically complained about. Why can’t he be more? Why won’t he aspire to more? Why doesn’t he have the vision yet? Why doesn’t he have the drive that I need for him, he’s a male. He’s a man by, you know, assignment in science, but he’s a male, he’s not ready to assert himself in the world and do the things that we talked about in the second and third book that men have to do, which go into protection provision, in priesthood, in order to be able to have a family that grows, and that is thriving. So after your males, you have men and men are broken out into traditional men, modern men, not the bar women, you guys want a traditional man, but a traditional man requires traditional input and investment. Most modern men are in between the traditional, and in the male category, only because we’re, the term that we hear is 5050. Work together, bring to the table. And so that’s where our modern men feel feel like they have to spend the majority of their time they even get into a relationship. While our traditional men, men in general, are moving into their purpose. They’re moving with the passion. They’re involved in their community. They’re men of high character, they’re done with the fantasies and the games of boys. They’re done playing games emotionally, with women, as F boys, they’re not content being seen as a guy. And they won’t be led and differ in their actions. They’re asserting themselves in the world. And then the high value man is doing that at the higher level, where there’s a tribe of men around them, providing them that support that accountability so that they can continue to grow and be of the best use to that. Most women want a high value, man, because it sounds good, that high earner in some instances, but we do have a lot of F boys that are a lot of guys who are high or high earners. But the high value man being I think you said I couldn’t remember if it was even RepRap. But one of you said that that’s what everyone aspires to, you want your are programmed in our society to go for the best. But when you go for the best, they cost you something. So being with the high value, man is going to require a higher investment than most people are willing to make.

Herman 27:32
So I think that that’s another point that I kind of as I’ve read this book, and I don’t, anyway,

Travis 27:40
what Go Go for it.

Herman 27:42
No one was going to be with just the setup, which if you aligned them closer together, I think that I would have captured like the female version and kind of aligned with more so with what man like they’re categorized with, just like, what they want or what the aspiration is. But that’s like a book thing. The actual thing I was thinking about mind was, it seems like that high value man with earnings is very, very few and far between, right? Like most men don’t fall in that category. But if you’re a female, or if you were one of the classified female groups that aspires to that, from what I read, it seems like women have to give up a lot for the for the for the helper role in that high value man’s life. But the high value man doesn’t have to give up much except for really just structuring what they do. But if you’re a woman, and it takes you a long time, or you have to wait for this person to achieve, first of all, is it worth it? And second of all, they are the ones that have to give everything up to do that. And I’m like, Is that realistic? Especially when there’s all you know, millions and millions of women going after this very, very small group of men? Because most women in that capacity would fail at achieving that high value, man?

Glenn 28:55
Yes. So I’ll go through and kind of decode

Herman 28:59
I know, that was a lot my bad.

Tim 28:59
Yeah, no, I think it makes sense to compare the female side and then we could talk about how they might match up.

Glenn 29:07
It makes sense to compare the female side. Yeah, well, well, the female side, it kind of aligns with it. But I think here’s here’s the broader point with that. So let’s first talk about what you said in relation to the high value man how many there are less than 5% of the total dating market is going to be a high value man. And of that, there, it’s gonna it’s gonna be far fewer in between because of misconception social media pelvises, everyone’s making $203,000 Here, their ball in their own trips there and the Turks and Caicos and everyone’s not, the average earning for a man in North America is around 56. And if you break it down by socio economic and by demographic, it’s much lower for African Americans and people of color. Right? So that’s the first reality. For women it’s even lower. But what the loudest groups of that are in this that do the complaining about not being able to get ahead About You men are the ones that are on the cusp, anyone that’s between, specifically women between 58. And around 75. hypergamy kicks in, they want a man that makes at least double, I can make 75 I need a man that’s gonna double me. And he needs to double me because that’s just what I want. Versus if he doubles me, and we get into a relationship, he’s not going to be available to work that a man who was at 58 will be and it’s just a fact because the work is different. So that’s kind of the first phase. When we talk about aligning the men and the women together. Boys and girls play together. I think I’ve talked about girls in the book that go in where we all have that first girl, those girls and those first experiences, especially in my high school, my middle school, my high school, where they go around picking a boy every two weeks that they like, and some of some of the women get stuck there. Then when we go from that we have our city girls are hot girls. They’re the ones on social media, the loudest hot girl summer.

Travis 31:05
When I read that chapter, that’s all I heard in my head. Yes. What you need

Glenn 31:13
you a hot girl. Thank you, baby girl. I appreciate you. So

Herman 31:17
you’re like your videos.

Glenn 31:21
Our girls are in city girls, girl. They’re not girls, they’re making money. They’re getting to the bag. But there’s a lot that goes with that. And I think everyone knows that. And the city girl knows that a lot goes with it. So then you have just a GAO and a gal similar to that of a guy. She’s kind of there. It’s not popular. But most men always have an encounter with the GAO, you try to make it work. She’s really nice. She’s really overly accommodating. But she does that because she’s the GAO. And there’s nothing special. She’s guys move on. A lot of F boys have their gals sitting on their roster for Tuesday and Wednesday,

Tim 32:03
and then they’re in the week sicker on the weekend, bro. Man,

Herman 32:08
I don’t understand none of that. Part of the world

Glenn 32:15
do you have are females the females is a very long chapter, it was truncated, but in the much larger multiverse of the the female takes up a lot of space. Because they’re the largest group, they’re the largest group that is in the dating pool at any given time. And it’s just a lot with it, there’s a lot of there are a lot of emotions that have to be combed through. There’s a lot this group has the most traumas, most of those traumas are caused by parent, the lack of a parent, bad relationship. This is the group that I talked about in the book that would benefit the most for a year if they’re being being on social media. And that’s what I’ve told clients. If you’re thinking I need you to get off social media, I need you to go to therapy for about a year. Let’s talk in a quarter so that we can come back and connect on this so we can figure out what’s going on with you professionally, because it’s showing up your because of your relationships and your failed relationships. And then you have women women are broken out into traditional women and modern women. Modern women are probably the the most the second or third largest loudness group. Modern women lead with their education, they lead with their career pursuits. They have their own money, they have their own savings, they typically have their own condo, house and car, they got their retirement together. So they’re looking for a partner, they want 5050 I want someone to come alongside with me and work with me and partner with me. And that is going to get you a guy, a male or at best picture, you know, a non traditional or modern man. And then you have the traditional woman who is what you talk about. The traditional woman is someone who makes their buying decision for relationship early in college right after college, before I have to go to grad school, and that woman makes a bet on a man. And they typically make a bet on a man who was on that trajectory and have the characteristics that you need in a husband, a father, a friend, someone who’s faithful, who’s done with fantasies, who’s done being a net boy and going out on a weekend who doesn’t do boys trips. That woman is looking to make that decision early. And she makes that decision early to bet on you. When those relationships break up. That is where the woman wins. And if she’s made a 25 year investment with three kids and two houses on fire, and she’s moved with you five times, then it’s the responsibility of that man to hold up his end of the bargain, which is faithfulness, which is provision which is commitment, which is fatherhood, which is support and encouragement. And it’s a ballot it is actually the That’s part of the middle ground. But then you have your high value women and your high value, women are completely 100% sold out for their high value man. And their high value man understands his responsibility with that woman, my responsibility is to be in my purpose in my passion, developing, you know, whether the business is growing my professional career as an attorney or as a doctor, or an accountant, growing my lawn care business to $2.5 million in revenue, his woman will be there to support that and provide him and identify meet his needs, because she knows he’s committed to meeting her needs to meet the family needs.

Travis 35:42
So the high value man has things associated to it, such as earning such a provider. But the high value woman is a helper.

Glenn 35:54
Yeah, I would say a high value woman is a helper, the high earning woman is typically a moderate woman.

Herman 35:59
But that’s where I get confused. Because I’m like, it seems like she would have to give that up or it’s not going to work. Which then why? Because she’s a helper. So

Tim 36:07
you’re, you’re,

Herman 36:09
you’re suffering imbalance,

Tim 36:11
you’re assuming that she went linearly through this evolution. Yeah. But if, if her values are, you know, like I talked about, even in our relationship, right? Like her her goal, like she be a mother, be it be a wife, right? Take care of her house, and take care of her husband and her kids. And so, so she so she didn’t have to, like she could have skipped the modern woman piece and went right to high value woman found her male ushered me ushered me into high value male status, and now we’re perfect couple. Am I getting that right? But she

Travis 36:47
can’t be high value. She is high opera.

Tim 36:49
So okay, so that is where that is where we kind of diverge. So in my using my relationship as an example, and I do want to unpack your relationship dynamics, Mr. Sandford, as well as yours, both of y’all. But in my relationship, I, so I guess we really didn’t talk. First, let’s unpack the leader in the helper, because we didn’t really talk about that yet. But I

Glenn 37:16
think most relationships work best when there’s a leader and a helper.

Tim 37:21
So the leader is the provider and the helper is. I mean, the helper, maybe it’s just the word helper, you think of the help?

Herman 37:31
Well, you think, well, you think of relationships, and it’s an ebb and flow and that ebb and flow can go for quite a bit of time. Sometimes you’re going to be the helper sometimes you’re going to be the leader, or you can be a leader in certain capacities.

Tim 37:41
And so I knew I shouldn’t have told you what I was gonna say in pre production. So you stole my thunder. I so that’s my relationship, right? So, so I told you like, how we got to where we are, right, but right now, Wi Fi is growing her business. So she is she’s in high value. She’s in modern woman status, right? The husband is in helper mode. Whenever she needs, pick the kids up, taken, you know, taken to school, pick them up, do karate. make ramen noodles, make sure they take a bath at least once a week. Like get him in bed before midnight. I’m exaggerating. But But I am the helper. And I’m 1,000% cool with that. Because she’s doing her thing that she is passionate about. She’s excited about and that is going to help provide for the family. So so it’s like, what category do you put her in? Or is it okay to straddle back and forth to what works best for your marriage, or relationship?

Glenn 38:48
Or for your relationship? Or?

Tim 38:51
Yeah, like, how do you classify us? I mean, did did I classify us the right way based on your framework?

Glenn 38:57
I guess I would I would match that characterization. Yes. I would say that if it’s a leader and a helper. If the book doesn’t talk about gender roles, and sometimes people asked about what’s the gender role and responsibility, this is 2022, you’re not going to get the gender roles. I talked about my current two grandfathers, they got generals. Yeah, they understood they both came home from World War Two, bought a house cash, got went and got a job as trades. They were making money on the side and other trades, went to the Legion hall on the weekends for the dance. Women play cards on Saturday, Sunday, went to church made love to their wives and had seven kids. They did that in perpetuity until they died.

Herman 39:42
Yeah. So that’s where to me Oh, go ahead.

Glenn 39:46
So in that scenario, their wives were helpers at home. And if you we take a look at the book, and we talk about some of the other dynamics within this country, and in North America in general They had to deal with more stuff and mess than our generation now has to be because of the benefit of time. And so they were still able to thrive financially thrive with the family thrive with a growing community. And I believe that that dynamic of that family leader and helper provided that yeah, it’s which, at the end of the 60s in the 70s, and 80s, it went on steroids, yeah, to where it was 5050 I work you were, my dad was the first generation where he did chores. He was at home, sweeping the floor on and cooking two, three dinners a year, while he also had to have a career, pick me up from activities drop me off at other people’s houses. My mother also worked as well. So that was the first generation for it. So and but in that scenario, in that situation, my father was the leader, my mother was the helper, but based on roles and responsibilities on what they negotiated, yeah, everyone, someone led in some areas, and someone sat back and helped from my own personal relationship. My wife is 100% sold out on the childcare. I don’t, I don’t have any questions. If if the kids are happy and healthy and developing, we’re going to do it. And we have a problem with the babysitter or the daycare, and you have a problem with it emotionally, I got a problem with it emotionally. Because Mama is unhappy with what’s going on with the kids, dads aren’t happy, and we’re going to figure this out, she leads in that capacity. But I believe that the best thing for any relationship is to have a clear distinction between who leads and who was the helper, there’s a lot of noise in kind of the blue pill and the red pill, which I say those people don’t like each other. So about, she needs to get on my page, she needs to get on my page. And that’s not what I believe, I believe the middle ground is where the best relationships are going to happen. And we have more than enough examples over a 60 year period of that both and celebrity professional political couples, and then individual relationships where it doesn’t ebb and flow with what happened in 1955. That doesn’t happen in any one community at any one given time. Here in 2022.

Travis 42:13
Yeah, so I think one of the things about the book is the way you tee it up, and you do talk about this. I’m gonna call it evolution, but we’ll call it progression, you know, things that have happened from 1950s on like you just highlighted. So I think the way you tee it up and get into that story, is there’s a perception that the leader is going to be the male, and the helper is going to be the female. So to that you would say what

Glenn 42:41
I wouldn’t say that would be the reader gleaning that,

Tim 42:44
and that’s exactly what you did, bro. Yeah. You you self assigned gender roles

Herman 42:49
to Well, I

Tim 42:53
know, you and you explicitly said said that you didn’t. I think you said like, yeah, you’re not talking about

Herman 42:59
oh, my thing had to do more with what with that timeframe and the evolution of broader economic dynamics. Right. So you talk about that. But I’m like, the outcome of that wasn’t a negative thing like that playing it’s

Tim 43:10
a great societies. Yeah, like that playing

Herman 43:12
its role, like since all of those things were implemented, it’s gone down. 50% as far as like in that, but so one of my first question is like, Who is this book for? Because if it’s for black people, then those numbers are way different, like, like people have have grown?

Travis 43:26
Yeah, that’s a good question. What you obviously we talked about the in the preamble, we talked about, you know, from a position standpoint, who it’s for, but like demographically, is it for black people? is worse for everybody?

Glenn 43:42
The the books performance, it’s for every group,

Herman 43:45
I figured that that was the case. And that’s good. Because I mean, obviously,

Tim 43:49
but But I mean, I think a lot of your qualms came from the black.

Herman 43:53
Yeah, but perspective is like, well, you can’t assign these programs as being like, the next paragraph starts with you know, this is kind of like the trajectory of things going south. But um, like the broader economic things that were happening was killing off a union. So like a single man at that time could work with the union, black people, great migration, we’re in different places like Indiana, right? So like, we’re in these places, you can make enough money to support a family. But as time has gone on, women had to enter the workforce. And then you’re talking about economic growth, stability and GDP and productivity you need women in the workforce. So when I was then the next step was going into women basically need to be able to lay a pathway and be helpers to this like high value man kind of pathway is how it read to me, maybe I’m wrong, but that’s where I started, like having qualms where I’m like, Whoa, this is we’re gonna we’re going backwards because you almost have to have two incomes now. Even on a path. Yeah, even on your pathway.

Glenn 44:50
You have to have a two income household in order to thrive because the typical family wants to have two cars, a nice house in a nice neighborhood with great schools. If not private school, three to four vacations a year, new iPhones every year new MacBook Pros, all of the activities are just five kids roughly cost, you know, in my city that’s anywhere between 175 and 300. Yeah. So how are you going to get that if that kind of upper middle class, upper middle class lifestyle with one income, if you’re a high value, man, you’re typically older, we know that most women communicate, they don’t want to a gap date, they want someone who’s their own age, who they graduated school with, that’s fine, you have to make the investment in the buying decision early to work on that high value, man. And then typically, you meet in the middle when you work out the deal. And the deal includes things such as gender roles in the relationship, and ultimately in the marriage so that the relationship is thriving, just as both individuals are thought.

Travis 45:55
So one of the things that I find interesting in this whole until into the book, and then I really want you to take on this, you know, we’re talking about do you feel as if there needs to be a kind of a priority set between the relationship? As far as you know, identifying which job, I guess has more value? Do you think it can be 5050? Or do you think at some point in time within the relationship, you’re gonna have to say, hey, you know, it’s gonna be 5545. Like, if something goes down you we have to identify what’s primary and what’s secondary? Or can it be 5050. And both people be working toward a trajectory of being,

Glenn 46:38
it depends on the job. And it depends on the profession. If you’re an attorney working on your partner track, and you’re married to another attorney who’s working on it, you’re going to be a struggle for the relationship. But if you’re in a dating relationship, which the book is focused on, finding that person that best fits what you’re looking to achieve, meeting them in the middle, making the deal and then assigning roles and responsibilities down the line is going to be the best. I’ve been in the situation where about earn my significant other, she’s out earn me. And we’ve been okay with that. There’s also seasons where what you talked about, the work of one becomes primary and one secondary. And that’s historically, when we talk about grandfathers in the 1960s and 70s. Grandfather, when he got laid off from the union, and grandma went to the sewing shop, and she was cleaning houses, and she was babysitting. He had to do more around the house, get the kids off to school, get him there. And he did it with joy with compassion, because he knew he wasn’t making the right investment at the time. But

Herman 47:45
did he? Or was he saying?

Glenn 47:49
No, I’m just gonna, I’m going to man. So yeah, if we’re, if we’re just talking about that, like just the time I fuckboys, no more. Yeah, just the overall standard of it. Then when he went back into the Union, when he got hired back now not a part of the Union, then or not a part of that training, he went back to work, put in the time, put in the effort, and it ebbs and flows. So I think that the overall message for the book is, you’re not going to get everything you want on your list, stop creating lists, stop saying it has to be this way, in order for me to date this person. In order for me to be with a man it needs to be this order for me to be with a woman she needs to be this because ultimately, the stuff that matters is going to be how you cooperate, how you guys communicate, and how you guys execute the plan. As the most important day, when I fail in my relationship, I’m not executing. So I’m missing some skipping steps, I’m missing, missing important things. And that’s on me, it’s not on her. So I’m missing my part. And I’m supposed to leave, I have to own and have accountability for that. And she calls me out on it. I take my shame I move on, and then we get back right into position. And that type of mindset of in that type of mindset is what’s meeting most people on the other side of the relationship, status of dating, you’re gonna have to get out of your own way, you’re gonna have to stop being selfish and making it all about you. And the relationship is going to have to be primary focus. Some time to close the loop. Sometimes you’re leading, sometimes the other person is leading. Sometimes it better never be there’s no leader, right? Because when there’s no vision, the people will perish. There has to be a vision for each of the most important things in your relationship. Yeah.

Tim 49:37
So I just want to reiterate that point. You know from a sentence on page two, with the help of his book, you will successfully identify why your relationship outcomes are one your fault to under your control, and three, your responsibility to fix. This book puts onus on you and no What else? Right, so we’re not pointing fingers. And so I think that’s I think that’s important man, because a lot of times we do we pass the buck. And we start coming up with reason excuses why it didn’t work out when deep down inside, you know, you just didn’t do the work you didn’t put it in, you didn’t do you make the right decisions, you make bad choices as I tell my kids.

Glenn 50:23
And one of the terms that I use is it comes from the model technique therapy, it says, The story that I tell myself. So a lot of times we tell ourselves a story based off of a certain instance, that may be a one off and we start to build our story on it because it validates what we want to be true. Yeah. And when you do that, you do damage you do damage to yourself, and then you do damage to the relationship and or even the potential relationship, because we have some listeners right now who have said the story that I tell myself is there are no good man, sorry, I’ve told myself is that there are no women that are faithful. Really. So based off of based off of what Well, based off of my personal experience. What if I told you that what you’re telling me is less than 25% of the market. So 75% of the market is not as doesn’t have the characteristic veteran speaking? Well, I wouldn’t believe that, why? Because I tell myself and what I know. And then it goes into I buy I sell sell so and sometimes you have to step out of self. And in order to get the outcome that you want.

Herman 51:30
So just something I wanted to touch on briefly going back to a couple of things I noted down, one was age, looking at history, because, you know, in the 50s 60s people were like average, women were getting married at 20. And I think the average age of a man was 22. Fast forward, people are getting married much later. And so when I read through this, and I think about today, also back then most men could work one job their whole lives and take care of things like you could be a mailman take care of. We don’t live in that world. So I’m like, Well, men have to ebb and flow out of different work situations, whether you were laid off or whatever, I just feel like today, the agility that both men and women have to have would leave like this kind of structure people kind of ebbing and flowing out of all of the time or some more, I guess, instances of how to manage people ebbing and flowing out of whatever category they’re in, right? Like if you’re F Boy, that could just be a phase or it could be a phase because you lost a job. And, you know, you’re just down and out. And you know, it just to me, there’s

Tim 52:38
but did you still have to have the other characteristics?

Herman 52:41
Yeah, but you’re gonna have to deal with those characteristics more often than in the past when people just kind of like did one thing, right? Like, on your pathway to being a high value, man, you’re gonna have a lot of hits and misses, right? And whoever, whatever woman is gonna be there, she might leave you because you trick stuff off. But I’m like, we’re talking about a long pathway like that could be 10 years. 15 years for you, you know, on that path?

Travis 53:03
Yeah. But I think he said that, you know, there’s buying decisions that have to be made early, when you’re at these other stages, and they have to believe in your vision

Tim 53:11
and make your bet base

Herman 53:11
your bets. But that’s,

Glenn 53:14
that’s not that’s popular. Like, I got to place a bet. What do you mean, where people we have feelings, you still got to play some bad, so So what bet on this person and be willing to fail at it. And if you’re going all in and fail, then you left it all out

Herman 53:28
on the field, but when the best advice be for them to just focus on yourself and your own interpersonal success until you reach a point like I mean, to me, that is a risky bet to have to bet on somebody in college. No, don’t do I would tell people don’t do it. My daughter Don’t Yeah, but there’s,

Travis 53:45
you know, there’s spin on

Tim 53:47
any man if before he turns 40

Herman 53:50
You’re gonna get married as a woman? 26 Why are you betting on a man when you’re 19?

Glenn 53:56
You might have the vision. It might come from a place but I think I think the question is what

Herman 54:05
I think like should a woman or not that we should be deciding what women should do or to cancel? No, but I’m gonna say

Tim 54:18
what do I need to tell these?

Glenn 54:22
Let’s take it from the man standpoint. Yes. So the best advice that I can give where I have the most, the most success with the outcome with young men that I’ve mentored who are now 30 I told them 18 to 22, put your head down. You need to go to college or the military gives you a trade and then come out with the ability to go how to make money in the market. When you do the 30 You need to be building your craft in 20 to 30 you can become an expert in your craft, whether that’s medicine, whether that’s law, whether that Sales, whether that accounting, engineering, all of these necessary skills, education, whether it’s all these necessary skills and skilled up jobs that require you to be specialized, you now have become expert, because you may have 10,000 hours of effort towards that. So then at 30, you can look, take a look and say, All right, I’m not going to be like my great grandfather, just because the age group, and I’m not going to be able to work for this one company forever. So maybe, I think it’s time for me to either look at other employment opportunity look for a partnership track, start my business while I’m working this job. So you spend 30, to 33 really getting laser focused on owning the skill. This is when you typically take your first and second real promotion. This is when you’re, you have skilled up and your your time is in fitness and your health and your faith in your family. And you’ve done the work necessary now at 33. To say, what’s going on in the market, you became a man, going back to homecoming, you go back to homecoming, you haven’t been to school in 11 years, you get to homecoming, you see all your friends, you have a good time. And then you may start deciding you know what, such and such looking good, let me go ahead and reach out to her you have spent a decade working on your craft, you don’t have the option to make a mistake, because you bet on yourself for a decade. So who you pick, needs to match your hustle, match your energy, and you guys need to be able to work out what the relationship is going to there

Travis 56:34
is a big problem in that though, at 33. There’s tread on the tires of whoever is looking good over there. There’s so much. There’s so many things in life happen. I mean, there’s real though, like you’re, you do have the ability to maybe take a chance and say on love because you’ve been working on yourself. But quite frankly, people have been living their life. And I would take your scenario of working on yourself and take until 33 to be able to make a calculated decision. Because I don’t think that that’s I don’t think that’s a bad premise. But what I think is that today’s day and age, you’re going to find you’re going to be hard pressed to find somebody with that level of dedication matching you on other side, you’re going to I’m not saying it’s not possible. I’m saying that. And I’ve said it before, the older you get that dating pool looks different. When you’re young, that dating pool looks like tau in Vegas. When you get in your early 30s it starts to look like the one you start getting earlier, you start getting later and later in life, you know, then that dating pool looks like the Super Eight. Like I mean, it’s just changes like what you were looking for, you have to go to specific places to go get. So at 33 You know you’re now looking and saying, Okay, you worked on yourself, but then you have to back so be willing to accept everything that’s going on in somebody else’s life. It’s no longer building organically like it is in your 20s

Herman 58:09
I cannot wait to tell somebody to go hit up the super rate.

Travis 58:13
YMCA that 24 Hour Fitness YMCA probe and it’d be it’d be cool was good. But it ain’t no action in

Glenn 58:23
there. I’m going there to swim laps.

Travis 58:27
Yeah, you’re going there to swim laps. Yeah. It’s good water because

Tim 58:31
we’re getting a Jacuzzi.

Herman 58:33
You don’t want to get if they have one. Don’t Don’t go.

Glenn 58:37
So. So to take that topic. So to continue on premise with that information. So yes, there’s tread on the tires. I’m assuming that this the guy in this scenario is also has tread on his tire? Absolutely. And from my understanding, because I’m not out there. That tread is less important at that stage. Because we all have tread Yeah, is what I’ve been told. Yeah. So I’ll just believe that to be true for that. That portion of the market. I’ll say whether I agree or disagree, but I’ll just, I’ll just let it let that be true. But at 33, the average age now that we’re seeing engagements happen. That number is 28.8, between 28 and 30. For women and between 29 and 33 for men now. So we’re delaying marriage, and we’re delaying it because of the upfront investment we’re seeing in education and Korea. So by that time, the this guy in this scenario, the girl that he made, should probably have been engaged twice, but she’s never married. He could have been married, she could have kids, but at this time, he may be looking for something specific. And if he’s focused on the right things from a character standpoint, then he should be good because that 33 He’s gonna say hey, I got somebody I mean someone says Putting on 31 men are better at home common she was a couple years behind me, we’re gonna go ahead and see what this is, oh, we both live in DC. Let’s go ahead and take it in DC and then two years later there and engagement. Three years later they have a kid there in DC so they can’t afford a house Virginia, Virginia or they can come to the middle of the country where you can afford things. And then they go live happily ever after they get down the road and then they start building their life not for what they want it to be for the weekend. But where you want it to be at 65 I’d say in that scenario, this guy is laser focused on what he wants. He wants his life to be as divine. What do I want to be on the porch with? My grandkids? Do I want us to have a 30 year marriage? Do I want to 20 year marriage or I’m gonna 10 year marriage I want to be my second or third or fifth marriage?

Tim 1:00:48
I mean, I think if any, if there’s any 33 year old man that is thinking that thoroughly and has a plan like that, then that person is okay. With the past trying transgressions. Right like you got some she got some you’re bringing your baggage to the table. But as Glenn said, like, just make the deal, man. Yeah, I mean, make the deal. negotiate it, you know what you get? What’d she get

Travis 1:01:14
your inexcusable? You’re cool with the past transgressions. I’ve been there, you know, like, but I think that what you need to be conscious of is, you know, he talks about paying for, you know, past cycles, or past previous relationships and experiences. And that’s the other part of it. When you talk about the tread. I mean, you’re talking about, you know, being ready to navigate everything that comes with that person from I’m not talking about, you know, necessarily the kids, I’m talking about, like experiences like just being prepared for that.

Glenn 1:01:46
Yeah, yeah, we talked about paying for the mistakes of others. So when you pay for the mistakes of others that that, my hope, and what you should learn with the same intensity you have with your education in your career, is how to identify that early, when I tried to present a clear picture of the man and the woman, don’t go back to homecoming, and then get caught up with the F boy, ladies, don’t go back to Hong Kong and get caught up with the city girl trying to make a deal with her when she’s not interested in a long term view. She’s living for the weekend, he’s living for the weekend. That’s not who you make that decision with the 33 year old who goes back to Hong Kong and he meets a 2930 year old, a couple years behind her. Behind him, he is looking for the qualities that go into probably a traditional woman, a modern woman, high value woman, if he believes he’s on high value status, or he may even look at a female and say, Listen, I don’t have time for all of this. This is what I’m trying to do. He gets to that decision early, she gets to that decision early versus lingering. Trying to trying to make it work retreading bunch of trial and error. Like it takes trial and error. And that was the biggest mistake, I believe we’ve had the last three generations told that is not gonna take trial and error. And it actually does that trial and error like in corporate in our businesses and our corporate careers. It takes the trial and error to build the grip to build the character to build the skill set in order to handle it. And then you appreciate that this is something good and you fumble it. And you never know why it’s fumble. And then you just keep fumbling, that’s the Yubraj. If you get something bad, and then something else bad and everything’s bad, and then you finally get something good. What are we here? This looks different. So feels different? Why why is this different? Why are you this way and not doing what I’m expected? And then it’s on you to communicate the vision? Yep. Go.

Herman 1:03:50
So, in this scenario, the high value man is the most coveted or high value woman is that also the most coveted from men? I would assume not.

Glenn 1:04:02
No, it is not the most coveted by men, but it is

Herman 1:04:05
for women. But just based off of numbers, statistics and probability. A woman or most women that want a high value, man, don’t end up with that. And if they are married seems like a recipe for cheating and disaster because that possibly never leaves. And if that is true, then that girl or whatever could become a city girl if they’re not being fulfilled, like while this man or guy is on this trajectory, but he’s not the threshold of high value man necessarily on income. Is that something that ever man should watch out for because at the end of the day, she wanted the high value man and you although you might be getting there, like

Glenn 1:04:45
I think you would say so. Your audience knows that to be true. So it’s not a trigger that city girls go for the athletes entertainers share in the political realm but with the preachers right there with the fame component. And the reason they’re there with the fame component. They’ve been there too. weenies doing that. And then they get to 30 at homecoming. I need a man who’s making $200,000 a year. Okay. You tell me about your past? Whoa, what’s my pants have to do a, I just want to know who you dated because I heard I mean, come on everybody. We’ve been another on comments that are like I heard you are with this such and such from from the cowboys and even when this person from supersonic and super tight, she got a baby, baby. So in on incorrectly, what tends to happen during that season for that city girl who’s about it, she’s getting she’s getting her money, she’s doing well, you know just where she works. So the weekend is a big part of it. And that’s where those guys are, wow, the 33 year old in our scenario, I didn’t say he had a girlfriend, I didn’t say he was at the club. I didn’t say he was going there, he may go to his favorite football teams game twice a year, he may hang out with his friends, he may have somebody that that you know a gal that comes through every now and then that knows what it is. But he’s not out there with that. And he had to work at a at a higher intensity level for less. So when he gets to that conversation and negotiation, you’re not giving him to win $1,000 That evening, you’re gonna have to come and work for it and earn it. And that is the rub that most modern women have communicated. They don’t lie. Why are you making me pay for that not making you pay for that you want to get together, I like you, you’re attractive. I’m going places, I think you’re nice. I think we can do well. And I’m pretty kids. So let’s go ahead and get together. But all of that going out all of this, that’s not happening anymore. And then the woman has to make a decision, right? Do I want this? Do I want to do what I have to do and begin and be with this man who’s on this trajectory? What is it going to take to be with him? What is he really want? Am I able to give him what he wants? If I am what is the outcome that I’m signing up for? Yeah, that accountability doesn’t exist. Which is why I talked about it in the book.

Herman 1:07:09
So I feel like I feel like most people settle in somebody’s gonna get cheated on. It just feels that way. That’s because

Tim 1:07:17
there’s no, yeah, I think that’s the point that this proves is if you don’t have if you don’t align yourself, right, if you’re not self aware of where you are in this, this evolution of a man or a woman, and you’re not conscious. I mean, that’s what the it’s, it is a playbook. So it’s a playbook to be to plan for success.

Travis 1:07:39
So the premise from your perspective is, is that if you’re not properly aligned, your your relationship could be vulnerable.

Glenn 1:07:45
Yes. And that plays out. And what we see in all relationships, even from a corporate America relationship or business relationship, right now, they’re probably in line with expectation vulnerable, and that’s

Travis 1:07:55
if you’re high value, man. Does it work with a high value woman? Probability wise? Does it work? Yeah. Relationship work? Like, do you think that that is

Glenn 1:08:08
the numbers for it, I’ll take it to the ultimate outcome, which would be marriage. So the divorce rate for people earning earning over a combined income of over $251,000 A year is less than single digits than single digits. Because there’s more at risk, and there’s more investment, so people just didn’t work it out. So if I’m a high value, man, and I’m providing, and you’re a high value women, a woman and I’m leading, and you’re helping, we’re gonna figure out a way to make this work. Where we see incorrectly in our society is the high earners, we have a fame component. They’re the ones who are out here doing what you’re talking about. They’re cheating, exercising options, whatever the webs, they turn down here. It is what it is. And that is when the relationships break down. And I don’t think that’s normal, or typical North American relationships, or North American relationships want to stay together. Now we do have a 51% divorce rate that actually went down a little bit during COVID, which was surprising because everybody together, we just

Herman 1:09:14
knew it was gonna go up felt like it was going up.

Glenn 1:09:17
Yeah, so but we had a higher marital rate for the first time in 20 years during COVID. So people decided, okay, I’ll sell the house together. I actually really liked you. So let’s get married.

Tim 1:09:28
Yeah, we made it this far. Yeah. So

Glenn 1:09:31
I think when we’re talking about where the exercising options or infidelity happens, is when you’re someone that is a modern man or a woman and you’re with a male, female, or you’re with a guy or a girl. Yeah, yeah. Now, those are the groups where you see the most relationship strife. Because the city boy and the city girl, they’re out, doesn’t each other out having a good time.

Tim 1:10:00
Same page they do. That’s why I’m saying that same outcome expectation

Herman 1:10:03
to this numbers are not in favor of anything of people getting what they want. The numbers just aren’t there. It just is what

Travis 1:10:13
leads me this leads

Glenn 1:10:13
me, oh, you’re have people on the back end of the outcome of marriage because there was a season. It’s not in the 80s. Where the the marital standard. Those are the people who made who helped with relationships. Merica has been told to go Shut up and sit down. You don’t know what, you know, we were dealing with, even though we’ve been there. Some of us have been there several times. It was kind of like, Man, I know what you’re dealing with. I know what you’re going through. Oh, that’s what you’re dating. Yeah. Yeah.

Herman 1:10:37
I think that the people that don’t get married, that are live in city girls, city boy life, I mean, that could be something that works because the so that the numbers aren’t in the favor of settling down and that being successful, especially if you’re aspiring aspirations are high value either side.

Glenn 1:10:56
And here’s what I’m not a fan of. If you’re a city boy or city girl, don’t profess to want a relationship and be a traditional man or a modern man, stay. Date, city boy, city girl, and live your best life. And now in 2022 and beyond,

Tim 1:11:17
you can make a choice. Yeah, we’re making that choice more often, you can make

Glenn 1:11:21
that choice and no one is bothering you. Just stay out of the way of the men and the women who are trying to get together and figure out the relationship and stop tripping them up. And men and women who are being tripped up by the city man, the city boy and dog girl, stop getting tripped up by them.

Tim 1:11:38
All right. That’s facts. Two things before I know we got to wrap up here soon. Because Glen has responsibilities. Yeah. Being a high value, man. Alright, first, there’s only one name mentioned in this entire book, bro in his mind. PAGE 38. Inter Tim. Tim has an idea of what he wants. He’s attracted to a woman at the gala or charity function. I go to a lot of functions. Dona, however, that Chicky met at the coffee shop does not think that. The story about Tim goes on for a paragraph and then you kind of shift conversation. Why you picked the name Tim. And

Glenn 1:12:22
it was a name that popped in my head at the time.

Tim 1:12:25
Do it. I’m just happy I read the book. And we didn’t get no best man. I would just

Travis 1:12:34
got a little Harvey

Tim 1:12:34
jail. You ain’t change the names enough.

Glenn 1:12:41
Name. And honestly, I think for that chapter, I actually changed the name because I had to decrease the workout.

Tim 1:12:49
Buddy. Well, I mean, I read the I read the story. And I was like, okay, he is a there’s a 70% chance he could actually be talking about me. But yeah, I know, you won’t agree or disagree to that. All right. I want to I want to take it to. I mean, I guess the end all be all right. So if we if we’re on the same way you give me in the face, we

Travis 1:13:14
had a curveball question that must be asked before you wrap this. Everything we’ve talked about is male, female. How does this book apply to non traditional relationships?

Tim 1:13:31
You’re talking to the Midwestern traditional Republican? Isn’t that

Herman 1:13:35
what she’s writing first part of the book? He says, When doing that there’s not

Tim 1:13:39
52 genders, according to the author.

Travis 1:13:41
The lessons be applied to those who are non traditional relationships.

Tim 1:13:48
He’s not qualified to speak. I mean, yeah.

Travis 1:13:56
All right. Let me grab it up.

Tim 1:13:58
All right. So two out of the four out of the three here, have taken the plunge of matrimony signing the contract, and in the book he talked about marriage is duty. Yes, marriage is duty. It’s a weird word to say out loud in it. But, you know, and, and I, you know, marriage marriages is a contractual obligation, right. It’s, it’s with God and with the government, you know, whatever you believe, whatever, however you think, you know, etc. But that, that’s the end. That’s the end game for the perfect couple. Right for for the most part, based on the author being middle ground, middle of America, upper middle class, conservative values. You know, that’s just kind of what we do like like Glenn said out so My question is How? How do you get to that? I can’t. How do you get to? How do you get to the marriage piece? Like can can the can we be? Do I have to be high value man and a modern or traditional woman in order to have a successful marriage? Can it be a different makeup?

Glenn 1:15:26
Yeah, it can’t be a different makeup. I mean, we all know a city girl and a hot boy who are all together a hot girl in a city boy who’ve been together 35 years. So there’s, there’s a way to there’s a way to do it. For every group in there. I do try to exclude boys and girls because boys and girls just don’t have that. That true emotional maturity yet, but for the other groups to connect, I talked about guys and girls, they end up together, we see the guys and girls holding hands at Disney. They’re the ones taking the they have Furbabies they’re happy. Yeah. And they’re just they’re happy just kind of existing going to work and not doing anything super exceptional. Oh, it does work. But the point that marriage is doing

Tim 1:16:10
me doing an exceptional job of average

Herman 1:16:13

Travis 1:16:16
That Delta love.

Glenn 1:16:18
There are people who want an extraordinary extraordinary a large. Yeah, there are some people who are going to work nine to five. Yeah, I mean home, having dinner, watching Netflix, making love and going to sleep and doing it all over again. And that’s actually fine. That’s just the spine of the city boy in the city girl that’s just defined as the the guy and the girl that’s just as fine as the traditional man and the traditional woman. Because there’s no right or wrong that I am trying to promote out of the book with the categories. I just want people to have a better understanding of what they when they identify, so they know what they qualify for so that they can meet it. But your question about duty marriages duty. So if anything that the audience gleans is, it’s going to take some work in order to get the outcome that you’re looking for. And once you get that outcome, it’s going to be 100 times more work than it took to get it. Because not only do you have to grow it and nurture it, you have to keep it. And that requires a mindset outside of just love and affection. And we like each other’s colors. And we both like the rock that Dwayne Johnson, we didn’t really love facet. We love all that. No, it takes duty because every day once you get into the marriage, you got to choose your relationship to your spouse every day, even when you don’t feel like even when you want to light them on fire, and then watch them burn because they keep saying little stuff that keeps needling you have to choose duty every day. And when you choose duty, it honors the contract with God if that’s your belief and honors the contract with the state. And it has to submit the legacy that most are trying to build on time. Yeah.

Herman 1:18:05
My job, bro. Yeah, I let my wife slide four jokes in that are hurtful a day, I just let them slide. It’s my duty.

Tim 1:18:16
as well. Dude, it’s been an awesome, awesome episode. I’m glad we finally got to unpack this book, man. What can you tell, tell our listeners about how to access it as well as what can they get excited about what’s coming out after this

Glenn 1:18:32
round of book is available. It’s the community in which all of the individuals who purchase that they get access to so we haven’t moderated so there’s not a lot of chatter, that is going to be negative. But we do affect everyone’s view. You can purchase the book, it’s on Amazon through Kindle Unlimited Kindle and available in paperback because shipped to you in one day. And you can always you can also visit me at www dot Gleann standard for.com that is where you’ll be able to connect with me. It’s been amazing these last couple of months because I’ve been able to book more sessions and meet more amazing people and connect with them and hopefully positively impact their lives. So please go there. If you’re interested in booking a session, as well as if you are someone that’s in the audience that has your own podcast, you can book me there as well. And we’ll make sure that we get you the materials that are needed. But guys, it’s been a pleasure on my on this side. Thank you for offering your platform and offering your audience to me. I hope that they have grown and I hope that they have asked themselves some hard questions and I hope they buy the book.

Tim 1:19:44
Absolutely. We’ll post it on our socials. Yep, thanks. Absolutely man. I get to them kids.

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